2.0 talent build

[Nikodemus]

I *think* I have settled for this one:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=TAZZcAtoI0zfcst

Can't get everything I want ... yet.
Missing out on:
- 2 points of anticipation
- improved taunt
- improved shield wall
- one-hand spec

I'm not entirely sure if I should keep shield mastery, and I still need to see how raid tanking is working out with devastate - i.e. if I can drop improved heroic or not.

[Nikodemus]

Oh and 31/5/15 is still looking like a nice hybrid build. Substitute cruelty for toughness for the 31/0/20 variant.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=pAM0dIboxhzZVZcizoh

[Nikodemus]

While we're at it, the psycho DW DPS of doom build:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=TZVVuVMxRiuioc
Doesn't even have deflection, though >.<

[Daymare]

I like that last one, im going to take your account to play it niko.

[Aeroth]

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=TVZVZfqtohMdcbst
mine, cuz my gear allows me that i actually can have only 1 points in anticipation

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=pGMxdhbogudioVZc
this wud have been my pvp build i think..

[Derekian]

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=pVZE0zVMxRiuVoc The spec im getting

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=LiZZfVtoI0d0est If/when I spec prot

i'd prolly swap Imp intercept+zerker rage for DW spec in the first build for PvE.

[Aeroth]

@ niko:
Not sure what u want. But imp shield bash? I guess u always have liked to sound of it. It's utter useless imo. When things needs to be silenced, it's a rogue job to kick it or a counterspell.

If i have to choose, imp. sunder or taunt. I'd rather get taunt. Sure it all adds up nicely with focused rage. But I did 1 mc without imp. taunt and it sucks. Often it's really helpful, thing de-aggroing mobs.

impr. Def stance: utter crap. 6% less MAGICAL dmg for 3 points? Yay instead of getting hit for 100 nature dmg i get hit for 94 nature dmg now.

Impr. shieldwall is the shit btw.

Not knowing what devastate really is in live, but i prolly wud heroic less. Not sure about it tho. So question mark about impr. heroic.

@ derek:
why 1 hand spec when 5 cruelty is avaible? Note that shield slam/revenge crits is very nice. Also shield master = more block value means higher shield slams. Other then that. if u have 440 def. sure no anticipation.

[Nikodemus]

Tanking shield bash because it's too damn handy for PvP and 5-mans :D

Imo improved sunder has always been one of the best talents in the entire tree, don't see myself ever going without it.

I had improved taunt prepatch, going to have to see if I can live without it.

As for improved defensive stance ... well, we're gladly spending a point for 1% parry or 2% armor. This is just as much damage mitigation and finally something that can deal with the magical damage that all our fancy armor is useless again. I like the sound of it.

And yeah, I quite like improved shield wall. wtb more points.

And yep, improved heroic I'm uncertain about as well.

As for 1H spec vs cruelty, 1H spec is plain and simply better.
100% chance of 10% extra damage = 10% more
5% chance of 100% extra damage = 5% more
So ok, 1H spec doesn't help revenge and shield slam, but I don't see 5% more chance of them critting as enough to make up the gap.

Personally, I couldn't find the points for either, /cry

[Aeroth]

wait till u get 300-400 revenge crits :P

[Nikodemus]

A 5% chance of critting with revenge doesn't make up for a 5% loss in overall damageoutput, sorry :D

[Ironman]

he he he Aeroth m8 just a small advice. I would never ever try and go up against Niko in numberchrushing and stuff like that. I don't even want to imagine how he could kill my mage setup if I showed it to him. :D

[Nikodemus]

I'll leave that Paria.

[Aeroth]

i won't even try doing that. Hell i always ask him for some help in theorycrafting :)

1 thing that i don't know. That is if shield slam is consdered a melee attack.
hmm.. maybe i shud get some sleep :S

one more thing to add: Cruelty applies to everything. becuz we are horde i do think i'd value crit over the dmg bonus. one hand spec, sure applies to white swings, heroics and devestate. But cruelity applies to all. And having windfury streaks while tanking and having them crit i wud value that more.

[Nikodemus]

I'm actually not sure if cruelty effects shield slam, I've never had a build with both in it.

[Dojun]

I think it does

[Steelclaw]

where to put 4 talentpoints in deep arms build,, ?? Deflection or Iron Will or Thnderclap ?

[Ludicrouse]

So is a 2hander Arms build pointless DPS wise these days?

[Steelclaw]

hmm dunno , was first in DPS at Lethon :)
pure arms