Shinigami
Friday, 7th January 2005, 11:29
Fusion's Edit: Copied from old thread (http://renegades.rtcw.co.uk/showthread.php?t=3563), Part 1
Shinigami 5th January 2005 15:27
Code of Conduct, preleminary ideas (long)
Since I can’t play WoW atm, I’ve taken the time to write down some ideas for a Renegade Legion Code of Conduct for World of Warcraft. These are mostly my personal take on things, and it is intended as a way of getting things discussed, so please post your opinions in this thread, as well as other points that we need in the document.
Code of Conduct, preliminary ideas.
Organisation:
1 Guild leader
2-3 commanders – just like in PS, the guild leader is just a technical position, the guild is lead by a small group of senior commanders that make the decisions.
Some officers – These are the people that can invite and who help the commanders lead the guild on a daily basis. Number will depend on the size of the guild.
Members and veterans – This is the structure we’ve always had in PS, where a certain amount of outfit points made you veteran – if we decide to do this system we need a criteria for when you become veteran, either a certain amount of time in the guild, a certain level or a subjective evalutation from the commanders based on contribution to the guild
Initiates / recruits – the people trialing to become members, depending on the recruitment system we choose for WoW.
Group leading: Since there are no command ranks or similar perks to being a group leader, the person leading the group should always be the one who decides where to go and what to pull.
Membership and recruitment
We need to decide what size we want the guild to be, IMO we should be able to run Rl only groups at several levels, but the number of people required for this depends a lot on activity, willingness to group and level spread.
I think we should reinstate the old PS method of recruitment where we invite a potential member after playing with them for a while, then have them in the guild as initiates while we vote on them on the private forum and they have regged and posted here. Number of positive votes required will depend on the number of people in the guild.
As always, we want mature players with a good knowledge of the game, who are teamplay-oriented and social. TS listening capability required.
Economy and professions.
It has been suggested that we should only have one of each crafting profession in the guild, and the rest of the players with 2 gathering professions. There are several problems with this idea – if players are not active or leave the guild, there will be a void. People can’t be online at all times and sometimes have other stuff to do for days at a time. Secondly, many of the professions branch out later, Blacksmithing branches into Armorsmith and Weaponsmith, which then splits into mace, axe and swordsmith. Leatherworking splits into 3 branches too. Alchemy is one-tracked atm, but it seems that the profession is not complete.
I think that a system where our main characters have a crafting profession and the associated gathering profession (or tailoring + enchanting), and our alts have 2 gathering professions and send materials to the crafters is a better choice. I don’t like forcing people to character choices, and if people would like to take a certain profession, we should not stop them from doing that. Similarly, we will invite players after release who have played on their own or in other guilds, and they will have well-developed professions when they join. If someone wants to start a character with 2 gathering professions, that’s great, but IMO it should not be a rule.
Regarding materials and ingredients, we should encourage an atmosphere where people send stuff to eachother when they need it, and only charge money if the procuring of said item is associated with a significant cost, eg, if a crafter sends someone on a 3-day grind to get a certain item, they should be compensated J. Again, I prefer a voluntary system where people send items because they want to, not because of a rule. If a person is short on money and wants to sell items at the AH instead of giving them to guild mates for a while, they should be allowed to do that.
Similarly, concerning items, if you find something that you can’t use, ask in guild chat if someone else can use it before selling it at the AH or to a vendor.
Loot distribution in groups is an extensive topic that I won’t go into here, other than a suggestion that we keep the priority on use, then disenchanting, then selling. Don’t roll on items that you are not going to use, and if you are an enchanter, only roll if noone is going to use the item. If there are no enchanters in the group, or the enchanter has plenty of materials, the items can be sold. Only roll for selling of noone is going to use the item.
Generally, it’s much more fun to be in a guild if we work together and help eachother out with items, materials and quests. Economic deals and attempts to earn money from selling things to guild members breaks friendships and detracts from a good social spirit within the game.
Others:
If you want to play a gnome, you need a very good reason ;) They look redicolous and really ruin some peoples attempts to take the game marginally serious.
Levelling. I think it was Nikodemus that suggested that we create main characters on release day and try to keep those characters in the same level range. People that have much more time to play can use that time to level alt characters. Personally I think it’s a great idea and an opportunity to stay together as a guild instead of being spread put all across the world.
PvP – I think we need some code of cunduct regarding PvP, but let’s take that discussion in another thread since I think there are some disagreements concerning that topic.
Feel free to add other subjects that you think need to be put down in the Code of Conduct.
ForakExertus 5th January 2005 16:06
Re: Code of Conduct, preleminary ideas (long)
Great post, but im just going to reply to a small part of it.
About the recruitment, I always thought the good old "invite recruit, then let him make post on the forums after which we vote" system is perfect.. It allows for everyone to voice their opinion on someone and still doesn't exclude membership even if someone has a problem with this possible member. It will keep everyone much more happy then other systems mentioned, and it really takes no effort to vote on someone.. (yes i actually read someoen found it too much of a hassle to browse to the forums to vote on a recruit..come on..)
Dengar 5th January 2005 16:08
Re: Code of Conduct, preleminary ideas (long)
This is the kind of stuff I like to see :)
I don't want to go back to voting. It doesn't work that well and it becomes too much of a beurocratic burden. The "sponsor" (mentor?) system should be developed along the lines of a trial period e.g. 1 week, where the recruit plays with the sponsor. At the end of the period the sponsor decides if the recruit is up to the job and posts in the relevant forum and sends a pm to the administrator to get user rank updated (I will investigate hacks to allow moderators to change user ranks).
It's more efficient, quicker and easier to manage. If someone doesn't like the recruit they should contact the sponsor via PM and discuss it. If the sponsor is unsure then (s)he can involve the section leaders...
ForakExertus 5th January 2005 16:12
Re: Code of Conduct, preleminary ideas (long)
You honestly think the sponsor system is good...?
RL used the voting system for so long.. without any problems, making a single post on the forum is too much of a hassle?
Peete 5th January 2005 16:24
Re: Code of Conduct, preleminary ideas (long)
Great post indeed Shini, good work.
About the idea of having our main char with crafting professions and our alt with gathering professions, I think its gonna be a bit tricky.
To craft hi-lvl items, you need hi-lvl regeants which can only be gathered in hi-lvl area. So you'll need your alt as almost the same lvl as your main.
On the other hand, if your main gather and your alt craft, it's gonna be the same issue as you need a certain lvl to be artisan/master in a profession.
Shinigami 5th January 2005 16:28
Re: Code of Conduct, preleminary ideas (long)
True Peete, but my suggestion was to have for example BS + mining on your main, so you can get the materials for yourself, and for example mining and herbalism on your alt so you can send materials to other players or your own main character.
Quote:
I think that a system where our main characters have a crafting profession and the associated gathering profession (or tailoring + enchanting), and our alts have 2 gathering professions and send materials to the crafters is a better choice.
Nyana 5th January 2005 16:52
Re: Code of Conduct, preleminary ideas (long)
The problem with ranking in profession is that lower ores/herbs get less and less import, so if you want to craft lower armor/weapons for new members you have to get lesser ores again so that's why the alt could come in handy.
Flufball 5th January 2005 17:30
Re: Code of Conduct, preleminary ideas (long)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinigami
If you want to play a gnome, you need a very good reason ;) They look redicolous and really ruin some peoples attempts to take the game marginally serious.
Great apart from that. Give me one good reason why people can't play as Gnomes other than you personaly not liking thing
More feedback please :)
Shinigami 5th January 2005 15:27
Code of Conduct, preleminary ideas (long)
Since I can’t play WoW atm, I’ve taken the time to write down some ideas for a Renegade Legion Code of Conduct for World of Warcraft. These are mostly my personal take on things, and it is intended as a way of getting things discussed, so please post your opinions in this thread, as well as other points that we need in the document.
Code of Conduct, preliminary ideas.
Organisation:
1 Guild leader
2-3 commanders – just like in PS, the guild leader is just a technical position, the guild is lead by a small group of senior commanders that make the decisions.
Some officers – These are the people that can invite and who help the commanders lead the guild on a daily basis. Number will depend on the size of the guild.
Members and veterans – This is the structure we’ve always had in PS, where a certain amount of outfit points made you veteran – if we decide to do this system we need a criteria for when you become veteran, either a certain amount of time in the guild, a certain level or a subjective evalutation from the commanders based on contribution to the guild
Initiates / recruits – the people trialing to become members, depending on the recruitment system we choose for WoW.
Group leading: Since there are no command ranks or similar perks to being a group leader, the person leading the group should always be the one who decides where to go and what to pull.
Membership and recruitment
We need to decide what size we want the guild to be, IMO we should be able to run Rl only groups at several levels, but the number of people required for this depends a lot on activity, willingness to group and level spread.
I think we should reinstate the old PS method of recruitment where we invite a potential member after playing with them for a while, then have them in the guild as initiates while we vote on them on the private forum and they have regged and posted here. Number of positive votes required will depend on the number of people in the guild.
As always, we want mature players with a good knowledge of the game, who are teamplay-oriented and social. TS listening capability required.
Economy and professions.
It has been suggested that we should only have one of each crafting profession in the guild, and the rest of the players with 2 gathering professions. There are several problems with this idea – if players are not active or leave the guild, there will be a void. People can’t be online at all times and sometimes have other stuff to do for days at a time. Secondly, many of the professions branch out later, Blacksmithing branches into Armorsmith and Weaponsmith, which then splits into mace, axe and swordsmith. Leatherworking splits into 3 branches too. Alchemy is one-tracked atm, but it seems that the profession is not complete.
I think that a system where our main characters have a crafting profession and the associated gathering profession (or tailoring + enchanting), and our alts have 2 gathering professions and send materials to the crafters is a better choice. I don’t like forcing people to character choices, and if people would like to take a certain profession, we should not stop them from doing that. Similarly, we will invite players after release who have played on their own or in other guilds, and they will have well-developed professions when they join. If someone wants to start a character with 2 gathering professions, that’s great, but IMO it should not be a rule.
Regarding materials and ingredients, we should encourage an atmosphere where people send stuff to eachother when they need it, and only charge money if the procuring of said item is associated with a significant cost, eg, if a crafter sends someone on a 3-day grind to get a certain item, they should be compensated J. Again, I prefer a voluntary system where people send items because they want to, not because of a rule. If a person is short on money and wants to sell items at the AH instead of giving them to guild mates for a while, they should be allowed to do that.
Similarly, concerning items, if you find something that you can’t use, ask in guild chat if someone else can use it before selling it at the AH or to a vendor.
Loot distribution in groups is an extensive topic that I won’t go into here, other than a suggestion that we keep the priority on use, then disenchanting, then selling. Don’t roll on items that you are not going to use, and if you are an enchanter, only roll if noone is going to use the item. If there are no enchanters in the group, or the enchanter has plenty of materials, the items can be sold. Only roll for selling of noone is going to use the item.
Generally, it’s much more fun to be in a guild if we work together and help eachother out with items, materials and quests. Economic deals and attempts to earn money from selling things to guild members breaks friendships and detracts from a good social spirit within the game.
Others:
If you want to play a gnome, you need a very good reason ;) They look redicolous and really ruin some peoples attempts to take the game marginally serious.
Levelling. I think it was Nikodemus that suggested that we create main characters on release day and try to keep those characters in the same level range. People that have much more time to play can use that time to level alt characters. Personally I think it’s a great idea and an opportunity to stay together as a guild instead of being spread put all across the world.
PvP – I think we need some code of cunduct regarding PvP, but let’s take that discussion in another thread since I think there are some disagreements concerning that topic.
Feel free to add other subjects that you think need to be put down in the Code of Conduct.
ForakExertus 5th January 2005 16:06
Re: Code of Conduct, preleminary ideas (long)
Great post, but im just going to reply to a small part of it.
About the recruitment, I always thought the good old "invite recruit, then let him make post on the forums after which we vote" system is perfect.. It allows for everyone to voice their opinion on someone and still doesn't exclude membership even if someone has a problem with this possible member. It will keep everyone much more happy then other systems mentioned, and it really takes no effort to vote on someone.. (yes i actually read someoen found it too much of a hassle to browse to the forums to vote on a recruit..come on..)
Dengar 5th January 2005 16:08
Re: Code of Conduct, preleminary ideas (long)
This is the kind of stuff I like to see :)
I don't want to go back to voting. It doesn't work that well and it becomes too much of a beurocratic burden. The "sponsor" (mentor?) system should be developed along the lines of a trial period e.g. 1 week, where the recruit plays with the sponsor. At the end of the period the sponsor decides if the recruit is up to the job and posts in the relevant forum and sends a pm to the administrator to get user rank updated (I will investigate hacks to allow moderators to change user ranks).
It's more efficient, quicker and easier to manage. If someone doesn't like the recruit they should contact the sponsor via PM and discuss it. If the sponsor is unsure then (s)he can involve the section leaders...
ForakExertus 5th January 2005 16:12
Re: Code of Conduct, preleminary ideas (long)
You honestly think the sponsor system is good...?
RL used the voting system for so long.. without any problems, making a single post on the forum is too much of a hassle?
Peete 5th January 2005 16:24
Re: Code of Conduct, preleminary ideas (long)
Great post indeed Shini, good work.
About the idea of having our main char with crafting professions and our alt with gathering professions, I think its gonna be a bit tricky.
To craft hi-lvl items, you need hi-lvl regeants which can only be gathered in hi-lvl area. So you'll need your alt as almost the same lvl as your main.
On the other hand, if your main gather and your alt craft, it's gonna be the same issue as you need a certain lvl to be artisan/master in a profession.
Shinigami 5th January 2005 16:28
Re: Code of Conduct, preleminary ideas (long)
True Peete, but my suggestion was to have for example BS + mining on your main, so you can get the materials for yourself, and for example mining and herbalism on your alt so you can send materials to other players or your own main character.
Quote:
I think that a system where our main characters have a crafting profession and the associated gathering profession (or tailoring + enchanting), and our alts have 2 gathering professions and send materials to the crafters is a better choice.
Nyana 5th January 2005 16:52
Re: Code of Conduct, preleminary ideas (long)
The problem with ranking in profession is that lower ores/herbs get less and less import, so if you want to craft lower armor/weapons for new members you have to get lesser ores again so that's why the alt could come in handy.
Flufball 5th January 2005 17:30
Re: Code of Conduct, preleminary ideas (long)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinigami
If you want to play a gnome, you need a very good reason ;) They look redicolous and really ruin some peoples attempts to take the game marginally serious.
Great apart from that. Give me one good reason why people can't play as Gnomes other than you personaly not liking thing
More feedback please :)