For RL would you mind?

[JojoTheSlayer]

Am just putting up this poll becuase am currious if peps here would be willing to add a few mandatory certs in the Legion for the good of better, more adaptable tactics etc.

Am putting up my choice as a eg:
( You can select another poll choice if you dont like these, but like the idea :) )
--------------------------------------------------------------
1.Mosq -3 ( Must have at Br10 and abow )
2.Scatter -3 ( Must have at Br20 and abow )
3.Adv something - 5 ( Must have at Br23 )

[One Armed Scissor]

no as i hate the max

i have to proper do massive arm actions to turn 90 degrees

Mozzie is a yeah

and yeah to adv something

[Paradine Hawk]

Voted no.
dont agree with mandatory certs, some people play better in diff ways and to say you must have a max, for instance, just wouldn't work. Why force someone who is skilled in certain ways to have his hands tied and have certs for stuff he might never use and not be any good at when he does go to use it.
Just my four pennies worth.

[Daymare]

it does not matter, if you guys need a setup I will get a character with it. period :)

[JojoTheSlayer]

Voted no.
dont agree with mandatory certs, some people play better in diff ways and to say you must have a max, for instance, just wouldn't work. Why force someone who is skilled in certain ways to have his hands tied and have certs for stuff he might never use and not be any good at when he does go to use it.
Just my four pennies worth.

Because as mandatory you would need to train (in battle like we do Gal runs) that cert and by training you would become better. If for eg a Gal run fails and we spwan at tower I have only seen a good Max rush realy push througe good deffenses faster than foot zerg manly becuse a max can take more punishment.

I realy dont think even the best RL squad ever holding a CC would be able to outstand a 10 man org Max squad rush to the CC area.... which turned around will mean others would have less of a chance.
Small squads where gal pilots are offline its nice to know that everyone has a mossy to move and to regroupe faster
But when personal intrests comes before anything else I can understand the unwillingness to change.

[One Armed Scissor]

it all ok, its jsut the max, i realy dont like it, its the worst thing on PS

[JojoTheSlayer]

it all ok, its jsut the max, i realy dont like it, its the worst thing on PS

AkA you are unwilling to take any cert that you youre self personaly dont like. To me that sounds like haveing personal intrest before anything else.

Love or hate the maxes you cant disagree that they do have a realy important role, if they wernt they would not be so hige valued in Gal runs. Max rushes is a easy tactic that works both for attack an resecures thats why I added it.

[One Armed Scissor]

true but they make me :(, i suppose if i have nothing else usefull to get ill get scatter max, but not till then

[Ludicrouse]

We are the baddest mutha fuckers without even bothering with mandatory requirements.

Why fucking start now? If it aint bloody broke, put down the damn screwdriver.

[GuardianAnge1]

true ludi - what about this:

have a group of mandatory certs that you have to have at least 1 of. So:

mossie - 3
adv. medic - 5
scatter max - 3

thats what I would say. Eveyone has to have at least 1 of these. They're basic, but itll mean that eveyone has something we can all use together.

[Hovis]

Having spent a day in the TR and been on the recieving end of a visit from Renegade Legion I can safely say that it ain't broke. Granted I'm currently serving with the TR's equivolent to BHO but you guys still went through them and me a couple of times without too much trouble. Against a top of the line outfit it would have been a lot tougher I expect though.

I'm not going to vote on the poll anyway because I think what is needed is RECOMMENDED certs, not required. The fact is that this is Renegade Legion not Jimbo's House of Noobs. We all know the game inside out, we all know what we do best and we don't need micromanaging. I think there should be big discussion on what we do and brainstorming how to do it best but I don't think we need to be laying down the law on who does what.

[GuardianAnge1]

ill go back to our old forum to see what we said back then

have a look here:
http://renegades.rtcw.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2773

[JojoTheSlayer]

I think what is needed is RECOMMENDED certs, not required.

Well thats just pointless.
If its just eg recommended to have mossy and a squad leader asks everyone to get a mossy to do a mossy dropp, or whatever ,it wont be possible if 1 guy dosent have it. Why he didnt have it? He only spent 1 houre on a mossy and didnt like it so since it was just a recommandation he uncerted. Ergo Recommandations is just wasted text, no offence, but you know its true.

Okay we are good, but when it comes to gals etc we have one big problem... that is that once we do a dropp on a outfit that knows us we are SO predicable its insane.

I only sett this poll up to see how willing peps are to change so I dont excpet this to be taken up as is or anything, but we should keep in mind that if we want to stay on top we should actualy try to improve before other outfits adapt and pass us.... Kinda just waiting for the day where a enemy outfit sees that we are doing a big deal at a event or something so they setup a 4xAA BFR squad just to intersept oure gals and give us heavaly damage before we even reach the target. When RL are attacking from a tower I realy dont think we are that good. Its mostly personal skill that then counts and not oure groupe tactical skills.

[FuSs]

the only cert i would require is mosquito.
the rest should be recommended and is common sense.
ppl know best how they can kill/support in the best way.

[Flufball]

We've never need this rubbish before, why start now? The only times I've seen Mandatory ones is in small specific groups run by rebb.

I have to say no to this for deffinate. I have developed a play style that I find hard to leave, particualy as its the one I work best with.

Forcing people to do stuff against their will in the legion, after a history of not doing that causes friction. And Jojo, dont take this as critisim, but iirc the same happend with the WoW stuff, and you again where the one wanting to force mandatory things (in that case servers) on people. It just doesnt work with a fair few of us. I have always, with the exception of the farmers, and look what happend there, been in favour with freedom of choice policys. Its a game, not a personal dictatorship.

[Daymare]

meh that removes the point because not everyone will have the same cert :\
Anyway, to be honest I can understand why a lot of people does not like the n00bmax, It is hard to use properly :)

And btw paulo... if you say the max is the badest thing in ps.. fancy taking me on one on one with me in a scatter? ;)

[justinalot]

Having spent a day in the TR and been on the recieving end of a visit from Renegade Legion I can safely say that it ain't broke. Granted I'm currently serving with the TR's equivolent to BHO but you guys still went through them and me a couple of times without too much trouble. Against a top of the line outfit it would have been a lot tougher I expect though.

I'm not going to vote on the poll anyway because I think what is needed is RECOMMENDED certs, not required. The fact is that this is Renegade Legion not Jimbo's House of Noobs. We all know the game inside out, we all know what we do best and we don't need micromanaging. I think there should be big discussion on what we do and brainstorming how to do it best but I don't think we need to be laying down the law on who does what.


Great stuff HOVIS this is exactly how I consider my certs and how I can assist the OUTFIT.

Its common sense guys if we need something then just cert it and help others

Imagine what we would have done without those GALAxys last night?

Mossie dropped everywhere and not really that effectual against such a big force.

[Flufball]

Thats what we've always done Justin, be it someone bringing on an alt or just me recerting my skyguard to a gal becuse no poilts are online. Thats fine. Its the whole you must have x certs or else that will not work.

[Tapja]

Id agree with the following:

1) Mossie or Air Support (they all fly... sorta)
2) Scatter or Falcon (despite popular belief, Falcon rocks against MAXs) Probably also would add SA into this category.
3) Any Adv support cert (CE, Adv hack, Adv med)

[Nikodemus]

Well, we've been over it a few times before and it never really seems to get anywhere, heh.

About MoX:
Their rule (all must be a.med by BR 12) makes them an extremely tough force to be up against. Mix it up with the TR ubergrunt gear (mcg/striker REXO) and some proper teamplay and they're pretty badass.

I remember running into them not too long ago where they actually succesfully footzerged all the way from Rehua tower to base while Sniperdude2k, LtMurphy, Braveheart, AzK and myself attempted to air cav whore them back into the tower.
10 guys in spread out formation with strikers ... well, ouch. And whenever we killed one of them another would res him while the last 8 formed a circle and kept 'em clear. Slowly but steadily they simply just pushed onwards and onwards 'till they reached the base and braveheart+AzK finally cleaned 'em out with a warpgile jumpwhore trippleshot killingspree. Up 'till that point it was pretty amazing :)

If there's going to be some required certs I'd say that ...
- requiring mossies is a good idea. Having 80% in mossies is bad, since that means we'll still have to get the gal going to move the rest around.
- 100% a.meds or 0% a.meds. 50% just makes it a waste of certs for those that have it.
- personally I'm not too happy about requiring a MAX suit from everyone. Sticking a guy that has a.hack + a.med + engi into a MAX suit is just a bloody waste tbh :)

But well, I probably won't be resubbing so I'll leave you guys to it :)

[Ludicrouse]

When RL are attacking from a tower I realy dont think we are that good. Its mostly personal skill that then counts and not oure groupe tactical skills.


Dude... you just shot your whole argument down right there.

Skills come with weapons you enjoy and are comfortable win.


Only required cert should be Standard Assualt.

[TataLebuj]

Interesting read so far, here's my 2 cents.

I agree with having required certs, but only having a few of them. This allows players to have enough other cert's to make a toon individualized. For example:

I do think everyone should have Mossie. This has come in handy for some fast resecures. But then I think a player needs to make a choice between the adv. certs and the maxes. Because if you are in a max, you aren't able to use any of the adv. certs.

So I would have set it up as :

1.Mosquito (air cav) **Required by all players**
2.Max or Adv. hacker/Adv. Medic **Player choice, either have a max or one of the two adv. certs**

This way when everyone drops we know that we can get some maxes if we need, and that we will have some adv. certs available for those without max.

Anyway, just my thoughts. Oh, and I agree with Hovis that we need to start looking at our game-style and start changing it up a bit. Front door drops? Drop's outside of a SOI? Something, but the moment people recognize its us, then they know what we'll be trying.

Cheers,

[TataLebuj]

Just saw Niko's post.....Damn, sometimes I think he's reading my mind....

You need to resub Niko - I wanna squad up with you and turn the world BLUE!!!

Cheers,

[Adelheit]

Well, i think common sense should work.

for example i recerted a.med. on my main char because we're really lacking meds in the last days.

[Derekian]

My view on this is yes but not the MAX.

I would more agree with Niko....a full squad of a.meds is just unbeatable (unless the numbers are crazy) and the mossie has become something needed these days so it's propably required by all.


If its just eg recommended to have mossy and a squad leader asks everyone to get a mossy to do a mossy dropp, or whatever ,it wont be possible if 1 guy dosent have it. Why he didnt have it? He only spent 1 houre on a mossy and didnt like it so since it was just a recommandation he uncerted. Ergo Recommandations is just wasted text, no offence, but you know its true.
I beleive that most of us have played in EVERY position in this game and have tried everything so a recommendation is good enough m8.

[Shinigami]

I'm not subbed, but I think Tata's suggestion is the best.

Mossie for all, and either adv. med/hack or Max for all. More meds than hackers of course.

Tbh, with 3 extra cert points, everyone could have 2 adv certs.

[FuSs]

About MoX:
Their rule (all must be a.med by BR 12) makes them an extremely tough force to be up against. Mix it up with the TR ubergrunt gear (mcg/striker REXO) and some proper teamplay and they're pretty badass.

I remember running into them not too long ago where they actually succesfully footzerged all the way from Rehua tower to base while Sniperdude2k, LtMurphy, Braveheart, AzK and myself attempted to air cav whore them back into the tower.
10 guys in spread out formation with strikers ... well, ouch. And whenever we killed one of them another would res him while the last 8 formed a circle and kept 'em clear. Slowly but steadily they simply just pushed onwards and onwards 'till they reached the base and braveheart+AzK finally cleaned 'em out with a warpgile jumpwhore trippleshot killingspree. Up 'till that point it was pretty amazing :)


too bad nc have nothing like that.
10 phoenix guys are pretty dead once 2 reaver show up.

[GuardianAnge1]

lol shy - i've taken on a reaver one on one with my phoenix and i killed him. it aint too hard, you just gotta pwn like me :cool:

[FuSs]

we could really try a tight infantry squad once.
think it takes only 3 phoenix missiles to down a mosquito and 5 or 6 to kill a reaver.
if EVERYONE has a phoenix and you run 2 fireteams per squad with 1 fireteam leader who says e.g. 'fireteam 1 attack northern reaver, fireteam 2 attack mosq east of tower' it could work.
would really like to try that out... but till everyone is certed in adv med and av i prefer my thumper.

[GuardianAnge1]

i think instead of hunting down the reavers, we should set up traps -

have a squad hiding ready and another squad attracking them or hiding a bit further away so that they can get it at a different angle. If we have 10 phoenixs, we will pwn.

i recon we give it a go

[Flufball]

I want to resub to PS, but if it means that I'm going ot have mandatory certs crammed down my throat at the pleasure of a few individuals I dont think I will. However, by all means give it a try, if you ever drop back to classical RL style, tell me so I can re-sub :p, untill then I shall wait.

Most of you know my opinion on mossies (Shit), etc etc.

[FuSs]

flufball its pretty easy.
either you have mosquito and follow the rest of the squad or you leave the squad to be no hinderance.
we still do lots of gal drops but sometimes the mosqutio taxi is a lot more comfortable.

none of us has to be a great digfighter. the main thing we use the mosq for is the fast transport.
you dont even have to land it. start, auto fly to waypoint, bail out.
its like a gal. the only difference is that you are the pilot.

[Ludicrouse]

Shy... Its not only about who likes what.. Its about the Principle of the thing.

What if your most hated cert which you have zero skills in is made a requirement?

If this shit gets put into place im in the same boat as Fluf... Thank god my sub ran out today. With this in place... im not gonna play cuz it aint the legion i signed up for almost 2 years ago!

Sorry if you dont like it... but no-one but me decides what certs im happy and comfortable using.

[Hovis]

What about ATV instead of mossie? It's plenty fast. Between the HART, an ATV and binding to bases a bloke can move very fast. I've seen RL run Galaxy squads rapidly and effectively with no need for mossies.

How about we make each person responsible for reaching the pickup point on time and those who are late enough times that it becomes a problem (twice, at the most) are told to sort it out by whatever means necessary.

[FuSs]

Shy... Its not only about who likes what.. Its about the Principle of the thing.

What if your most hated cert which you have zero skills in is made a requirement?

If this shit gets put into place im in the same boat as Fluf... Thank god my sub ran out today. With this in place... im not gonna play cuz it aint the legion i signed up for almost 2 years ago!

Sorry if you dont like it... but no-one but me decides what certs im happy and comfortable using.

nobody forces you but if the squad leader requires certs for his squads then u either have it or u wont be able to join his squad.
nothing new here.

atm justin and tata are the main squad leaders we have and its up to them to decide what they want and need for their squads.

[Ludicrouse]

Ive got no complaints of switching certs if we desperatly need a Gal pilot or whatever...

Its if these become a REQUIREMENT for even playing in a RL squad.


And that is what is being stated here. This is gonna turn into another "Farmergate" situation...


Your trying to fix a non broken object....

[FuSs]

the more i read the more im convinced that we need our named squads back (like rebellion, roughnecks, mongooses and whatever else we had).

then the ppl who dont like to cert the neccessary certs can play on their own while the SL can rely on their squad and know what certs they have.

[Ludicrouse]

The named squads where the dogs bollocks... some of the best fighting i have seen in RL.

I was a big fan of Rebels and B00ns squads.


I dont want a cert requirement just to have Renegade Legion under my name.

I pay money to play not to be forced into anything....

[justinalot]

Of late I have been leading the squads at night and I beleave we have a good balance.

Yes sometimes the regular pilots are not online and we could do with more numbers

As moose stated in another post we need to adapt to the situation we are given.

I have teken note of what moose has said and this has worked I only ask us to take on abig challenge if we have the numbers.

Low numbers we dont take something big on

I always recert to what ever is needed as the Vocal leader it is best to lead by example.

If someone does not want to recert then I dont make anyone I just adpat to what we have.

[leanmeankillingmachine]

I voted a fucking definate no, RL has functioned extremely well over the past couple of years without a mandatory cert requirment. I can see the point that a balanced spread of cert throughout RL might be useful but sometimes just isnt practical. I would however say that since the into of an extra 3 cert points ( is this permanent ? ) I would say that the deli cert would be a good idea but at the end of the day any choice of certs should be left up to the individual since he pays for his own sub.

[Flufball]

the more i read the more im convinced that we need our named squads back (like rebellion, roughnecks, mongooses and whatever else we had).

Named Squads where great, and more to the point they where Specificaly created for required certs. They ran, but there where also regular normal squads which worked with general legion players for those who did not want to or where to stubborn to go with the named squads. It gave you the freedom of choice, which is what, as ludi said, this is about. The Principal and freedom of choice in the legion. I don't want to see the legion become a supreme dictatorship.


What me, and ludi from the looks of it, are against, is every squad in RL being forced to have certian certs, on the otherhand, I am completly in favour of mongose type squads where justing says: Right, I'm going to make a squad specificaly for x situation, you need can have x certs to join me.

Thats how the legion has always done it, and should always do it. Alts, and recerting are easily used to adapt, or specific squads. Not forcing every player to play in the style of one nonspecific killwhores personal image.

[Ludicrouse]

*Grabs Bible*

Ameeeeeeennnn MY Brother!!!!

I HAVE A DREAM!!!!

[Prince]

i already have enough of those mandatory certs imo:

Prince Br20/Cr5: Mossie, adv.medic
Frostfire Br20/Cr2; Mossie, Scattermax, adv.medic, adv.hack
Gorch Br19/Cr1: You aint touching this guy, its my zerg char

If this aint good enough then sorry, yesterday i even went agile supressor with Frostfire just to be more use to the squad.

[Hincey]

the more i read the more im convinced that we need our named squads back (like rebellion, roughnecks, mongooses and whatever else we had).

then the ppl who dont like to cert the neccessary certs can play on their own while the SL can rely on their squad and know what certs they have.



That the best idea IMO lets every1 that wants to be involved with required certs be involved and those that dont can form a seperate squad. :cool:

[GuardianAnge1]

i recomended this a while ago, but that was when there wasn't full platoons of us running. I think it would be good to have cert specific squads.

Also :- what about a required cert as either a mossie, a reaver or gal/lib. that would mean that eveyone has a flying cert. Just an idea

[Ludicrouse]

Also :- what about a required cert as either a mossie, a reaver or gal/lib. that would mean that eveyone has a flying cert. Just an idea


Now that i dont have much of a problem with.

[Flufball]

Also :- what about a required cert as either a mossie, a reaver or gal/lib. that would mean that eveyone has a flying cert. Just an idea


Now that i dont have much of a problem with.

Turncoat. :p

Again, my resevations are stated.

[GuardianAnge1]

Turncoat.

nice language.

[JojoTheSlayer]

One thing is clear that the Gal tactics are realy woundrable to Mossy squads. If you where playing today (Fri Night 04.02) you could see how well we tokk down a enemy RL tactics copycats. They had two Gals and where more or less destroyed... if it wasnt for the fragwhores doh that instead of shooting down the second gal when the first one bailed, whent for the kill on the droppers :)

Point is smart peps will learn from this and use even these tacticas against us. And while we are realy good at calling oureself "the best" its pretty clear that if we dont even want to debate change that at some point we will just fall behind.

We know there are tactics out there that work pretty well eg Mossy capabilety, max rushes, adv medic inf setup etc, but most of em need for most peps to have some kind a cert. We have Gals that work pretty well, yes, but when a situasion comes up that ether means we lose the gal or the gal cant do the job we are usaly stranded and peps start to logg off...

[Ludicrouse]

JoJo as far as im concerned last nights performance proved that we are far too good as it is to even bother changing our playstyle.

If the enemy want to come try and knock us off our pedastal... let em try.


Renegade Legion > Red Alert!

[Porthos]

only thing i can say here is LOL to all of u...

1) RL must stick to gal operations
2) Each person must have a mossie cert atleast for when no gal pilot online and to have a rapid reaction force
3) U shall have either Max or adv med or adv hack on your char
4) We should not split up the squads in any way, eg. giving em names and have only certain ppl in it, because that WILL split up the Legion after a while
5) U shall listen to what your squadleaders tell ya to do, not about recerting but when he says stay, u stay and shall not move

ps. I liked how we had a bfr/van/mossie train to the backdoor of sobek starting in thoth. I'd like to try (thats the adapt part) to do it sometime with thunderers + deli's

thats what i think...

[Gunhead]

Regarding named squads:

I'd like them as a template for the squads, not setups that'd actually dictate how you kit yourself. Meaning that everyone's cert set does fit into one role or another in any squad template - at least that's the impression i got when we did "Rebellion", "Fighting Mongooses" and "Spamfest". Your character's bound to have a role in any such template as long as you know what the roles are.

Thus it'd be great if we had separate stickies here for each template - preferrably locked with stuff added as needed to keep them an easy and clear read.

In optimal conditions it could work with whoever's in charge at the time to just call the template and everyone would know what to gear up with and the commander would have pretty detailed knowledge of what he has.

E.g.:

Tata: Ok we're going Rebellion on this drop, call MAXes
Murph: MAX
Echor: MAX
Kampf: MAX
Tata: Right, Murph & Echor got MAX (since they were the first to call in this example), everyone gear up and load Gal.

Would be great to have sort of a "Legionnaire's handbook" for new members as well as for vets with lacking memory. Add to that some tac sketches such as:

Biolab cc defence:

oooo - first line: Scattercannons & HA
oooo - second line: Riflemen & SA
oo - third line: Phoenixes

NOTE: In case of incoming MAX 1st & 2nd line open up to give AV clear shot


Stuff like that, something basic and nothing too bounding or retrictive. Just start-off deployment the commander can easily shift and adapt as situation demands.


my .02 €

[DestRox]

`this thread should be called...
Bi@tch if u br23 u Must have:
1.AMS 2.Deli 3.AdvMed :P
... just an example for br20 i like
Rexo 3
Ma/Ha 6
Sa or Av 3
AdvMed 5
AdvEng 5
Atv 1
and br23 well... Gal? :P