DKP raid concerns

[Ramiraz]

On our last DKP run, we noticed something that made us question the decisions on what gets plaved in the guild bank, and what doesnt.

what we have noticed during our previous DKP runs green BOE and green crafting patterns/plans/schematics/etc. are free rolls, and if anyone can use it they just have to say so.

on our last DKP run this was in effect too, untill these, Schematic: Thorium Shells (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=11249), dropped. After everyone rolls, the DKP officer present says that "Those should go to the guild bank". the winner ofcourse gave them to the guild bank after that.

Now, it would seem logical to think that the rule during the raid should have been the same for all of the same types of items. but this was the only green crafting patterns that was deemed "guild bank loot", the rest still followed the original rolling rule.

what we are wondering now, is how can it be changed like that for just 1 item? It should be the same rule all the way through....should it not?

I wasnt the winner of the item in question, but had I been I would have felt forced to "donate" it to the guild bank, out of fear of seeming egoistic and unwilling to help the guild.
Had I been the winner in this situation I would have been realy irritated with suddenly having to donate it to the guild bank, since I would have given it to a friend of mine who does not have that schematic.

[Gromagrim]

DKP raids are Alliance raids, and officers may at some time see fit to treat certain drops individually outside of the main rules, to the benefit of the guild

[GuardianAnge1]

ooh, i'll have those plans :p

If i might add too, i know this has been said, but maybe not mentioned yet - I'm finding it increasingly harder to get help from lvl58+s to do instances during the afternoon (when I want to play). All of them are joining in for DKP raids and/or MC. Any chance we could leave some days out for 'helping the lower lvls'. I'm not asking everyone too, but just a few so that those who are on lvl 55+ can actually start lvling. I've been on 57 and havent got any xp since all my current quests are for BRD. Every day I ask but everyone is part of raids, so they are never free. Sorry, sort of a thread hijack - had to do with DKP raid and issues, so i thought that this would be appropriate.

[Gromagrim]

No DKP raid has ever started before 6pm. That's 6 hours after noon, plenty of time for even a full Maraudon run. Also remember that cancelling a DKP run doesn't mean the players will be at your disposal. Again, I don't like to say it, but this has a delicate whiff of 'So it for me, Mr. lvl 60'. Just because Blizzard claim BRD is lvl 48-56 doesn't mean you should be doing it at level 48, and if you're not, the blame doesn't lie at the fact there weren't enough level 60s to Twink you.

There was another thread in the forum asking for help to Maraudon - why don't you lvl 55+ guys go help those guy level, then you'll have a full group ready to do BRD and whatever else you please.

That said, we only have DKP zergs on 3 nights this week. Do you want an MC run cancelling for us to come help out? :p

[Ramiraz]

DKP raids are Alliance raids, and officers may at some time see fit to treat certain drops individually outside of the main rules, to the benefit of the guild


in that case what decides what items are for the benefit of the guild? is there sort of a check list that has to be checked for each drop?

This has once again put me in doubt about the seriousnes of theses rules, since they aparently are breakable by the officers on a whim.

should the rules not apply to everyone, or am i mistaken, are the officers "above the law"?

[Visionaire]

Guildkontrol! Skaber mere vold! Guildkontrol! Skaber mere vold! POLITISTAT!!!!! (ehm.. Danish spam... nevermind :o )

[Daymare]

HAHAHAAHA (sorry, vis)

[Shinigami]

Mehehe...

[Daymare]

Either way, joke aside. I would just like to point out some thoughts that I have made about the PvE guild chat over the last weeks.

I think it is time for some of the PvE players to realise that the officers are not fighting agaisnt you. This is not "guild vs leadership" this is leadership + guild. About every post you make about the dkp system or about new rules, you hint at there being some major scheeme put down by the officers to steal all your path lewt. Dont you think some of these men would be better equiped if they did?

I think it is absolutely horrid that what ever the PvE officers do, they get flamed, and told that they are greedy. They are working their ass off to make a system that works, but it seems that your are out to stop them, as if the game will be ruined if they manage to make a system that works.

I do not say that you should not object, or comment changes and new rules, but the fashion you are doing it at the moment "So, the officers are above the law then?" I think this is just a silly and uncalled for comment.

All in all I just want to say: Your PvE officers work their ass off every day to give you a good enviroment to play your game in, and have fun. They spend tons of time doing things they don't consider fun, just so that you can have more fun. All they get in thanks are flames saying that they are greedy lamers, come on people. I know some things might seem unfair, but when have you ever seen Niko or Grom take an item because of him being a leader?

[Dyason]

As someone who has made comments on the DKP system, I don't think I've ever accused officers outright of taking the best loot. As in my other thread I've made comments, to be taken constructively I hope. Not everyone can voice themselves as easily or as well, and some people might also not see to the true heart of the issue and think it is slightly in favour of the officers. (Of course, whilst a DKP officer has to be in every DKP group it is slightly skewed)

[Banadan]

And how is it in favor of officers, when they decide to save a schematic for some guild/alliance engineer, who will craft then these items for the GUILD and ALLIANCE members, instead of giving it to some 'random friend' who may not be in RL or Scorned? As far as I can see, that decision will lead only to the situation, where OUR guild and alliance members will have the best tools available at their disposal and thus benefit the guild/alliance, because the crafter who gets it will make them for the guild/alliance (personal use too, of course).

[Maurgrim]

Now now, I can only speak of myself now, being an officer in The Scorned but I do have things that I'd rather do than raiding some place I have been to X times now and that I don't quite see as a challenge anymore. But will I still go raiding with you? Yes. Why? Because you need a DKP Officer for raids and because I enjoy playing with you folks.

And who ever has inspected me will see that I dont really have ph4t l3wt on me :D

Officers might have more points than the "average" Renegade or Scornie, but do we invest more time into the system? Yes we do.

Do we hold officer's meetings on TS after a raid has ended to improve the system further? Yes we do.

[Ironman]

Ok I guess I should just cut in here.

"Officers are above the law?" NO. I AM THE LAW. And no one is above me. Muahahahaha.

Ok joke aside now. Ramirez you have a very valid point there m8.

* Every piece of Rare (blue) or Epic (purple) loot that drops gets bid on (all players pass in group loot, or it's on master looter). Green items are rolled for as usual.

So if you ask me the officer was actually out of order and I'm not agreeing with Gromagrim here. The officers is not allowed to order such a thing.
What the officer should have done instead is said to the winner that such an item would actually benefit the Alliance a lot so he should either send it to the bank (in free will) or announce it on the Alliance channel for free or for a minor fee.
And I think I speak for all here when I say that every one would in fact do just that. If they didn't they wouldn't be RL material in my eyes. And I think Trouble (TS guildmaster) will agree here that they would not be TS material either.

I would love to talk to the involved persons also just to clear any bad feelings (if there is any?).

[Nathaniel]

Hi guys,

I was the person who actually won the roll for this enchanted thorium shells schematic and would have just dropped into guild chat to see who wanted it. Didnt personally mind at all giving it away to kaldor. But I missed that rosy glow from giving it away to someone myself :P

So if you need it - pm kaldor.

But Iron's statement also makes a clear ruling which avoids confusion in future, so that its up to the person winning the roll what he does with it.

hope this closes the thread

[Ironman]

@Nathaniel - Good to hear you weren't feeling like Fusion pulled your pants down. :eek:

And as you said, its up to the person winning. BUT I STRONGLY recomend listening to the officer if he says that the item is usable for the Alliance.

@Ramiraz - I hope this solves that issue. But I'm sorry that it might have sounded like I was aiming at some officer here (Sorry Fusion:)) but I was merely stating that the officers are not favored in any way and that everybody should still share stuff if the Alliance need it.

[Ramiraz]

Thank you Iron.

it wasnt as much that it was this specific drop, but more the way it was handled that left us confused. You answer helped clear it up.

We where not the winners, (Nathaniel was, as he said) but had we been we would have asked in guild / alliance chat if anyone needed it, before offering it to our friend.

The idea behind this post was more to find out if that sort of thing would be something we would see again from time to time, and if it where, if it would be possible to device a list of drops (rare green drops) that might fall in to this category.

Didnt personally mind at all giving it away to kaldor. But I missed that rosy glow from giving it away to someone myself :P

I couldnt agree more, it gives a special sort of feeling when you get to give something to someone that needs it.