Paladin Buff thread for MC and Raids

[Nathaniel]

Really enjoyed Sat Nights entry to MC which I believe went really well considering our first time there :). Couldnt make sundays mag try as I had other comittments.

but I believe we also need to sort out firmly before going in which pallies are doing which buffs to the raid. First time was kinda sorted but not quite. It also needs to be done to sort out improving buff timings as it the major pain in the arse for pallies to rebuff every 5 mins (blizzard - please put in a book to increase theses durations). Sat entry to MC I was buffing BoK on 5-8 and sacrifice on Grom. (which was why my damage taken was 3rd highest in the raid according to damage meter :/. I know I was missing getting a wis buff which would of helped mana regen.

My suggestion only based on 8 pallies and assuming MT is in Group 1:

Pally 1(group 1): BoK on groups 1-4, retrib pally with devotion aura with MT hitting mobs or close to MT
Pally 2(group 1): BoK on groups 5-8, retrib pally with fire resist aura with MT hitting mobs or close to MT
pally 3(group 2): might on all tanks and all melee dps,
pally 4(group 3): light on groups 1-4
pally 5(group 4): light on groups 5-8
pally 6(group 5): salv on all non tanks 1-4 + sacrifice on MT
pally 7(group 6): salv on all non tanks 5-8 + sacrifice on MT2
pally 8(group 7): wis on all mana types including pallies

Maximum people to buff = 20ish = doable

I think this is a much better way of buffing as it is crystal clear what each should be doing and is far than only buffing two groups as most people can get 3 blessings on them rather than 2 if you you have two pallies doing the same two groups. Also fail to see why it is complicated?

comments / suggestions welcome?

Last note : mods

I use paladin blessing cosmos autobuff mod to autobuff my party but wondering if any other pallies can suggest any mods that help automate the buffs above accross the whole raid.

[Shinigami]

This sewms to be the right thread to dispell the myth that Blessing of Might actually does anything useful for hunters - it only buffs our melee AP, not ranged, so no need to cast it.

There is probably no need to keep Light on hunters and mages. We shouldn't be taking much damage.

IMO, keeping Salvation on the damage dealers and healers is the most important. Kings and Wisdom are very nice too, but not as essential.

[Banadan]

Frankly the buffs are settled before the raid between the paladins present. One paladin can't buff the whole raid, even with one buff, because by the time the last char is done, it needs to be restarted. Also not all paladins have the same buffs, for example I don't have BoK (and don't plan to get either anytime soon). So it depends who's there, who has what and who is in which group. If there's a paladin per group, then it's easy - that paladin can take care of the group and if needed, some other paladin who has BoK can add it, in case the first one doesn't. If less paladin then 1 per group, then 1 paladin can easily take care of buffing of 2 groups.

Obviously the buffs itself are quite clear - BoK on all when can, BoSalvation on all casters and DPS classes, BoW on paladins (BoW can be also placed on all who have mana by other paladin then the one who placed BoS naturally), BoM on tanks. All in all it's quite easy to sort it out before the run, so it's not an issue :)

[Nathaniel]

@ Shinae

have noted point about might on hunters (thanks shinae) and edited entry accordingly.

regarding light on hunters and mages I know for a fact that I spent 60% of my mana on precisely healing mages and hunters in my group due to mob auras / random spits etc, so if we have the buffing capability as above with light we should use to improve mana efficiency.


@Banadan

But it was not sorted at least on Sat ( some warriors missing might, I didnt get any wis through out).

With my suggestion above no single paladin is blessing entire raid. Max is twenty people. I dont see whats wrong with formalising it this way at least its clear.

All pallies have all buffs except kings - all it needs is for two pallies to have kings and they fulfill 1 &2 above. Dont see the problem?

[Banadan]

Then it means that some paladins were slacking or paying attention only to their group. I took care of buffing of 2 groups and kept the buffs on on those 2 groups from the start till the end.

[Gromagrim]

We also had complaints of tanks receiving wisdom and even salvation. Wisdom is a waste of mana, and salvation is more of a debuff. I even had to remove it myself just before tanking Magmadar, but I'm sure that was more of a misclick then any Paladin actually meaning to buff me.

Paladins who are new to large group buffing (i.e. everyone currently) don't be afraid to ask what each class would like, in fact, here's my thoughts, feel free to change

Everyone: Kings
Warriors, Rogues: Might
Everyone but Warriors: Salvation
Main Tank: Light
Priests, Druids, Paladins, Mages, Warlocks, Hunters?: Wisdom

Just my thoughts (probably wildly wrong, I've never played a paladin)

EDIT: Can we also have some paladin discussion on which auras to use? As main tank, I'd quite like both Devotion AND Flame resistance in my group. These 40-man actions are were our Paladins really come int otheir own, so lets maximise your usefulness

[Zhizo]

Well I´m Holy builded so i always give BoW(improved) to everyone who has mana. I don´t mind blessing players those with mana, even if its more then 15 peeps to bless. The other buffs I do depends on what the other palas bless with(we discuss it on a Paladin chat-channel).

[Banadan]

For you to have 2 auras on you means that you need to have 2 paladins with you in group. As it is right now, the auras affect the group but not the raid. Other then that, on those runs the buffs I've cast are:

BoS: all ranged DPS (weapons+spellcaster), melee DPS (rogues), healers;
BoW: paladins
BoM: on warriors if they were in my group and/or in other group what I was also buffing;

That basically is this, on the 2 groups I've been buffing on these runs. If some rogue wants to get BoM from those 2 groups, or some caster wants to get BoW, they'll need to check with another paladin. Occasionally when someone from other groups then what I buffed asked for some specific buff, for whatever reason it was missing, I also hit them with that buff, but not in most cases as the positions were quite different between the groups in some cases. In order for casters in the groups I was buffing to get BoW (and melees get BoM) some other paladin should buff them.

But, that's what is generally decided before the raid in paladin buff channel. And I would ask people to have patience, if you have not played a paladin then you don't know what a bloody crap work it is to buff groups and raids with buffs which have lousy duration. There is very good chance, always, that the buff might go durng the fight and you may not get another buff until the fight is over, because paladins are quite busy in MC with curing and healing. Also if rogues go constantly into stealth, then this only screwes up the buffing because we can't buff stealthed people through raid assist, and definately can't spend time trying to find a stealthed rogue amidst all of the other raiders. Wants to get a buff - do not stealth, at least until you have the buff. Stealth = no buff, until the moment when you're unstealthed. And, finally, stay in RANGE. There's no reason whatsoever for anyone other then the puller and MT be ahead of the raid, rest should stay with the raid in backgroup, and preferrably around their group. If I try to buff someone and get message "Out of range", I will take few steps in this or that direction to try to get 'in range', but if I still can't buff someone just because this person is not where he/she should be - no buff either. Have more important tasks to do then chase someone around the instance.

[Dyason]

Had a few thoughts on this after last night. Whilst the buffing definitely needs to be split up, possibly an easier way to do this would be to view CTRaid by class. Then paladins get assigned classes to buff. There are good reasons behind this.

The class view is very useful from a healers perspective, especially if the MT dies and another tank takes over, and when there's offtanking. Seeing a list of warriors is a nice quick way of seeing the people who should be healed. It also gives you a nicer view on classes that need priority healing. Healers kept alive by short boosts from paladins will make quite a difference.

With regards to the buffing, with talents these buffs can be slightly improved. (Not that many make a huge difference between life and death aside from BoL and BoS). By assigning paladins to a class you can have someone with improved BoW casting on druids/priests and someone else casting BoS on them. Then a paladin with improved BoM and one with BoS casting on rogues etc. BoK being a talent should ideally be discussed and if we have enough with it, we can try and cast it on all between the paladins. If not then just on the important classes. (10% mana on healers is nice)

This also requires less thought and easier buffing on the part of the paladin. If you know you're buffing priests druids with BoW you don't have to worry about the other buffs on there. Once you've been assigned your buff and class at the start even if new people join or group rotation you don't have to think.

I also use the lovely big CT timer, and reset/start it every time I do my buffs. This gives me a nice indication of how long I have before my next buff cycle.

[Banadan]

The 'by class' buffing has one problem - groups themselves are not made by class. You may have casters and hunters in your group, who do ranged damage and whom you need to heal, while those whom you buff may be melee and on front lines, thus basically constantly out of your buffing range. At some point you'll run into situation, where some caster in your group dies because you buffed the melee in front lines, or melee in front lines dies because you healed caster at the back of the raid and the melee didn't have the BoS, pulled aggro, mob turned...

This can be fixed of course with the simple action - all people stand with the raid before the pull instead of spreading out (unless the situation demands it) or running around, but I guess it'll take time until people get used with this. It also may leave some paladin with extra large buffing work, for example if someone has improved BoW and no one else has it, yet all casters could use it, then this one paladin would buff almost non-stop.

In any case, different ways can be still tried. We are just learning MC and anything related to it, including buffing, so all options are still open.

[Dyason]

The person with improved BoW wouldn't have to buff all, just be made available to the more important people (healers come first to mind) and then a usual BoW could be given by another paladin. It's not like the talent makes THAT much difference hehe.

With regards to grouping, I would hope it would be easier by class to heal/buff with paladins. Raid attempts on bosses/mobs usually split the classes up by positioning. Ranged classes at the back, healers mid range and warriors/rogues up front. If the paladins who are buffing, keeping small heals on their class are with that class it makes it simpler with hopefully less need to regroup as a group every 5 minutes to buff.