Time to shape up!

[Ironman]

Recently we have had a number of problems in the guild; stressed out officers, bad feelings about smallstuff, a lot of confusion and so on.
A lot of these problems stem from the fact that we have not had a clear goal in the guild from the beginning. We did not decide where we wanted to go, what we wanted to do and what kind of guild we wanted this to be. We have let things take control, and let the guild sort of go it's own way.
We've been taking everything in a very laid back way; recruiting loads of people, not being very strict about classes, relaxed loot rules etc.

This has lead to a guild with people of different interests and goals, which consequently has lead to a lot of trouble.

So, we decided to clean this mess up. We decided to sit down, and figure out what we officers want to do with this guild - where we want to go, and what we want to do. We found out that we could agree on that very quickly; we've decided on the way to go.

We're aiming for the big stuff. We're aiming for Molten Core, Onyxia and the future raid instances.
That means we have to get geared up.
- We are introducing the DKP system, with some modificiations. This is as much to give people an incentive to go to the 60-instances for gear, and to help guildies get their gear from there - as it is to reward those who work towards strengthening the guild.

That means we have to get practising.
- We will be hitting Molten Core for the first time next weekend (4th and 5th). The goal for the weekend is not to beat the bosses. The goal is experience - getting better at keeping 40 people in control, getting heal-rotations worked out and so on. Getting some practice.

That means we have to get organized.
- For Molten Core, teamspeak is no longer recommended - it is required.

And finally, should anyone have missed it, we are strengthening our allience with The Scorned. You can expect us to be raiding with them more in the future - they are fully in on the DKP system - and Sarf has modded a version of guilded for us to use for inter-guild communication.

Here is some of what is going to happen (http://forums.renegade-legion.org/showthread.php?t=1410)

[Nyana]

looking forward to it, well done to all officers :)

[Shinigami]

Good work :)

Recommendation: If you aren't already, get on TS now. Don't wait until we start doing MC. It's much easier when you know peoples voices.

[Peete]

Some voices are easy to recognize
/me cloaks :D
/me points budmonkey :p

[Nyana]

About the DKP: why isnt there a voting held if everyone agrees with the DKP? Im still totally against it and now it's just implemented without our members having a chance to vote on it.

[Ramiraz]

About the DKP: why isnt there a voting held if everyone agrees with the DKP? Im still totally against it and now it's just implemented without our members having a chance to vote on it.

I completely agree with this.

This now means that those of us who still are against this system are going to feel very unwelcome on guild raids...is this realy intended?

I know for sure, that I am going to think it over a few times before joining a guild/alliance raid now.

Im sorry Iron / Niko/ who else who worked on this, but I dont think you have realy listened to what your members are saying, well either that or you dont care (and I realy dont think or hope that its the later)

This system, while being writen with more words is more or less the exact same system as proposed before, the one that got so much negative feedback.

I for one is not doing any more free enchants for the guild, unless the "customer" brings me all the materials for the enchant they want. So in this regard, guild members and non guildies have the same prices with me.

you know, when I saw Isadors post about MC, I was realy exited, I wanted to go so bad....but now, with this system....I dont know, I might be busy washing my hair...

[Fusion]

Nyana, you've seen the debates (and flames) in forums over DKP. You can rest assured that the guild officers have taken this on board when we spent a considerable ammount of time debating amongst ourselves to go for this system, it was not a decision we came to lightly.

For the greater good of the guild we have decided to implement it, I'm sorry if you don't like it, but thats the way it is going to be.

[TheIcon]

Looks promissing. Put the guild on the tracks and lets get rolling.

about the DKP thing I hope that you will consider what Banadan posted. That DKP raids are set raids pre-planned to let as many people as possible have a chance to plan towards it. That way it'll even out some of the stress related to it as it wont be a panic raid formed at 14 pm, and again at 17pm and again at 21pm leaving out of some people form attending. That said I havent tried that sort of point system yet at all, but I think that by pre-planning/announcing the raid place + time + sign up will help alot to improve the feelings towards it :)

[Fastwalker]

Oke is it possible todo it 29th of may, since 4june is the dutch soccer team playing a qualifer so.. dunno how much dutchies are gonna be on then

i gotta count myself out for date cause a gf is having here b-day then.

[Nimu]

If it means our all-time favourite panda won't be there ... Then it certainly does look like a promising raid :p We'll prolly even beat old Raggy!

I have yet to post my opinions as i haven't tried out the DKP system. But this is the guilds decision and so be it - i can live with that.

[Isador]

Queted by Ramiraz

This now means that those of us who still are against this system are going to feel very unwelcome on guild raids...is this realy intended?
No. Why would you not be welcome (retorical) - It's any one's choice not to like this for personal reasons, but since none of us have tried it in RL yet, isn't premature to jump to any conclutions?

I know for sure, that I am going to think it over a few times before joining a guild/alliance raid now.
Why? Why not give it a go, see what happends, it might turn out to be ok.

Im sorry Iron / Niko/ who else who worked on this, but I dont think you have realy listened to what your members are saying, well either that or you dont care (and I realy dont think or hope that its the later)
We have read and listend to all contructive critisime and it have been taken into consideration, but we have decided that this is the best way to get our guild moving to the next step.

This system, while being writen with more words is more or less the exact same system as proposed before, the one that got so much negative feedback. We have tried our best to suit the needs of the majority, while stille keeping in mind that if we do not act, th guild will fall apart.


you know, when I saw Isadors post about MC, I was realy exited, I wanted to go so bad....but now, with this system....I dont know, I might be busy washing my hair...
Why not give everyone a hand and join in the fun? Allthough I know washing ones hair can be quite fun aswell....


Why not give it a chance, why go againt all the hard work put in by the officers without any substantial arguments?? It's all nice and well not to like it, but how did you find out that you liked marsmellow... You tried it out. Same way you found out that spinitege (the stiff popoy eats) on your pizza was awefull? You tasted it...

[Nyana]

ill give it a go, thank god the DKP system was implemented when my main healing char is nearing lvl 60 now.

[Isador]

ill give it a go, thank god the DKP system was implemented when my main healing char is nearing lvl 60 now.

SUPER!!! :D

That's the spirit

[Ramiraz]

what will you, as officers do to get the people in the guild, who realy want to raid, but isnt getting invites, invited to raids?

because as it stands now, it is certain groups of people that raid together all the time, with others being left out...

its understandable that they wont have points to use, if they dont want to raid, but these people want to come...noone just ever thinks of inviting them along...

[Fusion]

what will you, as officers do to get the people in the guild, who realy want to raid, but isnt getting invites, invited to raids?

because as it stands now, it is certain groups of people that raid together all the time, with others being left out...

its understandable that they wont have points to use, if they dont want to raid, but these people want to come...noone just ever thinks of inviting them along... What we do as always:

[Guild] [Kaldor]: LFM <insert raid here>
*10 mins later*
[Guild] [Kaldor]: LFM <insert raid here>!
*another 10 mins later*
[Guild] [Kaldor]: LFM <insert raid here>!!1
*1 hour later*
etc. :)

We do our best to get everyone of the appropriate level invited to raids, but if you come online and a raid is already underway then your chances of an invite are slim unless someone drops out midway.

[Ramiraz]

As I have said before, try to look at who is on the raids you do, specificaly, look at the classes we have many players of, like Hunters, or Paladins

if you pay attention over some time, you will notice a pattern, of the same ones being on the raids. Its not because the other ones dont want to raid, but those spots are always always filled before the raid more or less even begins (even though some of the others where already online before the raid was formed).

this is even worsened by the many many times you see

[Raid] [Hunter/pally/rogue/whatever] If you bring more of my class I will leave the raid "insert whine whine"

and trust me, that happens...alot

[Ramiraz]

but, given our options

Door one : Try it...

Door two : Hey, wait there is no door nr 2, go back to door 1

I guess, we will have to try it...

[Shinigami]

I see people asking for members to go on raids all the time in guild chat. It's usually not a problem that you have too many, usually that you have too few total players, or lack players of a certain class (Healers and AoEers most of the time).

If it seems to you that certain players are 'in the raids before they even start', then that might be because those people are on TS and someone says: "Hey, let's raid XXXXXX" and people say yes and are invited, then they ask on guild chat if more are interested. It might actually be that the players who you think get favored are actually just the ones who are on TS and actively talk to people about what to do later on?

If you don't have much time to play, you can also plan raids beforehand, I sometimes ask in the afternoon if people are up for a raid in the evening, some say yes, we set a time, then fill up the raid at that time.

[Rebel]

For any1 in the 'theres alot of my class' situation - this is a perfect system for you guys!

Before DKP

Strat Run

Rogue 1. : /raid. Please dont invite another Rogue, or i may not get my item
Rogue 2. : /raid. Yeah it will be dificult to get my item against 1 rogue, nvm 2!

Raid Leader : /g. ok no more Rogues, we have those spaces full.

Rogue 3 : /raid. I never get chosen as my space is always full, and theres no point going trying to outroll 2 other rogues!

During DKP

Strat Run

Raid Leader : /raid. Ok guys, we dont have any Warlocks online, but theres Rogue 3 who can help.

Rogue 1 : /raid. Well that means im going to have to pay a little more points if a cool item drops.

Rogue 2 : /raid. Damn this could be a little more pricey if a cool drop comes along, lets see if its going to be worth while spending points.

Raid Leader : /w Rogue 3. Wana come along to a Strat Run?

Rogue 3 : /w Raid Leader. How many other Rogues?

Raid Leader : /w Rogue 3. 2 others.

Rogue 3 : /w Raid Leader. Well ok, ill have to spend a few points if a cool item drops, but I'll still be earning points for another run even if i dont win anything, so i can next time!

Also maybe rogue 3 has his entire set that drops in strat, but he'll go to earn himself points instead of passing on helping the guildies because there is nothing in it for him!

Try the system before making bad comments!

[Tapja]

Raid Leader : /w Rogue 3. Wana come along to a Strat Run?

Rogue 3 : /w Raid Leader. How many other Rogues?

Raid Leader : /w Rogue 3. 2 others.

Rogue 3 : /w Raid Leader. Well ok, ill have to spend a few points if a cool item drops, but I'll still be earning points for another run even if i dont win anything, so i can next time!

Also maybe rogue 3 has his entire set that drops in strat, but he'll go to earn himself points instead of passing on helping the guildies because there is nothing in it for him!


"You are living in a dream world, Neo." But then again, you knew I was gonna say that :)

[Shinigami]

The point is, that even if you go on a raid and get nothing for it, you won't have wasted your time (yes, I know you will have had fun and helped your guild) because you will have earned points and thus have a greater chance of getting items you want in the next run.

I think the system needs a few days to get started properly, so people get more spread out in points - then it will work more intuitively.