A question - goals

[Nikodemus]

This is to everyone - what are your goals in this game and for this guild?
Where do you want to go from here? what do you want us to be doing in a month or a few from now?

I guess ... well, that basically I want to know if people want us to be a recycling service, a raiding guild, or something else.

Because, well ... I think we might want to decide on what kind of guild we actually want to be, and just stick with that. To stop wasting time on stuff we're not aiming for anyway, but just as much to stop fooling those who think this guild is going in a certain direction, when it is in fact not.

I'll take myself as an example.
If I join a strat raid tonight, that will be the 14rth time I'm raiding strat. The reason why I've been doing it that many times, has been because I've had future raiding in mind. Getting myself and others geared up for big challenges ahead.
So if that's still what we're aiming for, then I don't mind joining in on a strat raid for the 14rth time tonight. Not at all. If that can get our tank some more sta, get our rogue a higher DPS weapon or get our warlock some more +shadow dmg ... then that's good, that's another step towards the goal.

But if that's not what we're aiming for, then ... well, then I wouldn't want to be joining strat. Why would I bore myself with that instance yet again? why upgrade my gear when I've already overcome the biggest challenges I'm going to see anyway? why help anyone upgrade their gear, if they're not going to need it?
Then I'd honestly rather spend my time on something else - I've got an alt to level, I've got mates that need help in instances, I've got herbs to farm etc.

[Shinigami]

At the moment I'm running DM, Scholo, Strat and BRS to upgrade my gear to be able to progress into the raid content, probably starting with early stages of Molten Core, then Onyxia later.

However, I am very sure that I don't need a full set of beaststalker gear to be able to raid - if everyone wants to gather their set before going into MC then that might take months...

As a guild, I still think we need to work on teamwork and coordination, as well as the adaptation of newer players to the way we do things. If we want to make progress into the raid content we have to make another choice - do we expand the guild to a size where we can have 40 level 60 players online most evenings, or do we join up with other guilds? (The Scorned being the obvious choice) I wouldn't like to take random players along for MC as it requires a lot of discipline and tactics.

One area where we are severely lacking is the use of Teamspeak. In a 10-man raid on Scholo last night we only had 6 people on TS... I don't see any excuse why people are not on, it doesn't matter if you do not have a microphone, just being able to listen is a great asset. As harder content requires more coordination and rapid adaptation, TS becomes even more important. If I were to lead a raid into MC or Onyxias Lair, I wouldn't want any players along who weren't listening to the commands of the raid leader on TS.

I think we should set a goal of taking on Lucifron very soon, at least to test our raiding ability. If we are horribly under-equipped, we will die, then we can go back to raiding for gear for a little while longer before we try again. Whatever happens we will learn a lot about raiding tactics and the encounters. It's a win-win situation. The only problem here is the lack of level 60 players.

Class distribution is still a major problem, particularly the lack of healers.

If RL is not going to progress from the Scholo/Strat/BRS/DM stage I think I will get bored soon.

[Necto]

First of all, I'm playing this game for one reason and one reason alone..to have Fun!
To get as much fun out of of the game, I'd like todo everything that is possible within game.
The guild is a means to find the people that you need todo certain aspects of the game which are impossible todo solo. After playing a while with the guild, you get used to eachothers play, you learn more from other players and thereby improve your own play which results in more fun for you and your guildmembers. So I'd like to see the guild do pvp-Raids & Instances as much as possible.
Besides that, I think its really important to have a good community. This requires good leadership, respect to and from all players and player-selection (which I think we do pretty good with trail periods).
And yes, I do want my set armour, I do want my epic mount, but I would pass any instance run if the guild has any event going on.
Besides that, I actually do like helping lower-lvls players. See it as an investment, the sooner we help ppl get to that lvl 60, the sooner we can do Onyxia (or whatever) with guild only.

Currently im pretty happy with the amount of instance-runs but I would like to see much more guild-pvp'ing.

[Ironman]

I'd love to be a little bold here and say that my goal is to get to Onyxia in about 2-3 weeks (and kill her). I think we are getting there in regards to ppl/level and their equipment.
The only thing we need to sort is the date and time really.
We might get wiped the first couple of times but in the end we'll kill her.

So in the next few weeks I'd love to see some group/raid training. We really need to do that. In all the raids I've been in so far it's always been a chaotic mayhem.

And then we also need a few things in regards to ppl's setup in mods and stuff.

As some might know Sarf from The Scorned has create a very cool add-on that we are going to use for our Alliance and I'm close to saying that it is a requirement that ppl must have it. (We are still testing it and as soon as it's done we'll post it.)
We also need to sort everybody out on ts. Perhaps even train a bit like we did in PS. That means one group in each channel and one channel commander in each channel and also keep the ts chat to a minimum.
And ofc. ppl need to have the CT_Raid installed as well.

[Banadan]

I personally see these Strat, Scholo, UBRS, LBRS, DM (I really have yet to get into DM to be honest, have just dabbed into it) and so on runs as to upgrade the gear, so that we could do the higher end things, like Onyxia, MC, etc. Because, fact is, the places listed above are just that, the loot "shop", so that the people would be better prepared for real high end things. I have yet to get half the pieces for my char, but even when I have the full set and upgraded weapons and what not, I will still participate in as many runs as needed to equip others too, so that we'd be ready for the big challenges ahead :)

To some smaller guilds the instances listed above may be the 'end', but I personally feel that RL can do more, like the real high end content available in the game now, and coming soon. We just need more primary healers and we can do it then :D

[Shinigami]

Iron: I like what you are saying about Raid content, but I don't think Onyxia is the best place to start practicing. Of all the mobs/encounters in the game, only Ragnaros and Majordomo in MC are harder fights. There are 6 other bosses in MC that are not as hard as Onyxia, as well as countless trash-mobs that will give us valuable training in coordination and tactics. It might be a better place to start.

About TS and raids, I think the PS system of groups + channel commanders is a bad idea. I'd rather have 40 people in one channel, able to hear the raid leader. Only the raid leader and people who have vital information / knowledge of mob abilities etc talk. The rest stay quiet and listen or are muted. That's just during fights of course, there has to be room for fun as well :)

[patricia]

I agree with a lot of the post above.I love too get some people ready including myself for the real though bastards. I never been afraid too do an instance ten times too help out a member that needs it. Helped a lot of low lvls through Vc and other instances. Been helping a lot of higher lvls through instances we al neede. And i'll keep on doing that.

But the most important thing was already mentioned by toast and it is too have fun. If we already fight over loot and DKP points how the hell will we ever be ready for the bigger fish ? If we where a company i would advice us all too go rafting or camping together but that is probably not an option. Think fun is the most underestimaded feature of a good team. We can be serious and have fun at the same time.

Think we need more meetings and indeed more goals as niko stated

[Nimu]

Well, Fun. And loot, but mostly fun.

Nothing more needs to be said here ...

- Except that i only except the fun to increase in future.

Will hopefully see you guys soon :)

[Ironman]

Iron: I like what you are saying about Raid content, but I don't think Onyxia is the best place to start practicing. Of all the mobs/encounters in the game, only Ragnaros and Majordomo in MC are harder fights. There are 6 other bosses in MC that are not as hard as Onyxia, as well as countless trash-mobs that will give us valuable training in coordination and tactics. It might be a better place to start.

About TS and raids, I think the PS system of groups + channel commanders is a bad idea. I'd rather have 40 people in one channel, able to hear the raid leader. Only the raid leader and people who have vital information / knowledge of mob abilities etc talk. The rest stay quiet and listen or are muted. That's just during fights of course, there has to be room for fun as well :)

I really didn't mean that we should train on her. If it came out that way it's wrong. And regarding the TS, yeah you might be right. I just wanted that split to kill some of the chat there is when we fight. :) So I think your idea is also ok. :D

[Toparsokker]

I want to start raiding MC/Onyxia asap. :)

[Shinigami]

How many active level 60-players do we have online on an average night? 20-25? How many people who can devote 3-4 hours to raiding? 15-20?

How many does The Scorned have available for raiding? 5-10?

On an average night we also only have 1-2 priests online + 2-3 druids.

Doesn't look like we have enough to me :(

[Nyana]

I want to see inter-guild co-operation like we had in planetside, and i want to see we own whatever blizzard can trow at us.

[Dojun]

To have fun is importent, but to have fun is to raid onyxia/mc and do something that you feel are a challange a new thing. So i want them asap.

[faith]

fun first and foremost.....

Yep I want to do all th high lvl stuff eventually - but as I'm just coming up to the point of th lower 'big' instances I cant honestly say how I feel about it :)

am not too interested in pvp - is why i chose pve server....

do NOT want to spend every day/night doing big instances/raids etc - I need time out to play alts/solo/just chill/craft etc - a handful of 'biggies' a wk would do me :)

am playing this game for th long run... as you can no doubt tell - rushing to 60 and doing everything as quick as poss is just not me :D - from daoc am used to having several chars - so could bring whatever class was needed for arti's/master levels etc - also gives you better understanding of other classes

I also like every char I play to be as well equipped as poss - purely to be as effective as poss - and invest heavily in crafting (doing what I can for Korp's char at th mo) so... that's me and my 'playstyle'

from and to the guild - help/advice/and mutual respect for th person behind th char (I'm me first - and a lvl 5? priest 2nd ;) ) and a sense of fair play - ability and option to do all that is available ingame (but not too interested in pvp as said) - sharing of abilities and items that will eventually benefit all. erm... nuff waffle :rolleyes:

[Baggan]

i wanna say hello to onyxia

[Isador]

I want to see inter-guild co-operation like we had in planetside, and i want to see we own whatever blizzard can trow at us.

I second that. I'm gonna go a little kindergarden here, but I'm convinced that if we work together we'll be able to overcome any challange. We just need to find some sort of common ground.

As for my personal goals, I really wanna try to get this guild on it's way towards the highest lvl parts of the game = Help folks get their gear up to standard, so to speak.

[Nikodemus]

@Nyana:
Just so you know, the last couple of nights we (i.e. Iron, Isador, Bud, Kaldor and myself) have been speaking loads with the officers from the Scorned (Trouble, Deffy, Sarf, Maurgrim) and have agreed on a whole lot of stuff.

I *think* Sarf is done messing with the allience-channel mod by now ... it's a mod that adds a number of things:

/ga chat channel. Just like /g is "guild", /ga is "allience", and all members of RL and Scorned running it will be able to see everything on the channel.
Also, you can get a full list of all online members from both guilds (much like the ingame guild list) etc.

And finally we have the re-trial of the revised DKP system, where Scorned is entirely in on the whole thing - i.e. allience raids etc.

[Shinigami]

Have you considered the option of a merge between us and The Scorned? If we are going to have a shared chat channel, the same DKP-system and raid with eachother all the time, why not just make the 2 guilds into 1?

[Ironman]

@Niko you forgot that it also comes with customizable chat colors. :D

@Shini We did talk about a merge but seriusly there is too many factors unfortunately.
One of them being the fact that Trouble is just as big a megalomaniac as me. We want power. :D Muahahhaha */insert evil grin*

[Nyana]

it does me great pleasure to see that I can finally hump Trouble in our alliance chat :D Finally some good news after all the loot and greed discussions... (that doesn't change my opinion about DKP, i still dont like it, but untill DKP is further explained i wont comment :))

[Gaetano]

I would also like to see some MC/Onyxia action in the next couple of weeks. While raiding Scholo/Strat/BRS has been fun so far, it's really starting to get less and less rewarding.

And about TS:

I've been meaning to post a rant on this for a while but never got around to it, partially because I knew it'd be damn long. So I'm just gonna give the short version in this thread.

First of all, I don't have TS nor do I have a mic. I'm also not planning to change either of these circumstances before it's strictly necessary (latter being probably never).

Why not?

First of all, voice communication does not, in my opinion and in the opinion of many professionals of the mmorpg industry (this is where I would give the link I lost to an interview with a leading mmorpg designer...), fit in mmorpgs; not yet at least. The reasons are many and obvious.

A couple of reasons why I personally don't like it (and the reasons that most apply in this case):

1) Language barrier. Yes, I am perfectly capable of making myself understood in English vocally as well; however that doesn't mean I particularly enjoy talking English (as seldom as I actually have to talk English, it requires a lot more effort than talking in Finnish). Also it does divide people into non-native and native speakers, or at least make the separation more distinctive. I don't really want to hear any remarks about my "accent", as good-humoured as they might be.

2) The disparity between players and their in-game avatars. Yes I do know that roughly 95% of our guilds female characters are played by guys and I have no problem whatsoever with that. However, I don't want this fact to be hammered into my head each and every time I go on voice chat. Call it escapism or whatever but I really prefer game characters presented as what they are with their characteristic voices, instead of some kind weird amalgamation of the in-game graphics and a voice that's coming from somewhere quite else.

I guess that covers most of it. Lastly the answer to the popular question "why not just tune in; you don't have to say anything/need a mic etc etc.?"

This is what I will do when we go to the full-blown raid instances that require realtime team coordination. However in instances like Stratholme, from what I've gathered, the ratio between chatting and actual team coordination via TS is in favour of chatting, to say the least. In addition to reason #2 presented above, I don't find listening to voice chatting (which I can't participate in) particularly fascinating. Sorry.

Well there you have it. Came out pretty long anyways but trust me I could've gone on a lot longer :)

[Shinigami]

Renegade Legion has had people from almost all european countries since we started out, and we are generally used to listening to all sorts of dialects. I think we are pretty tolerant, even if people don't speak english very well. Noone is going to make fun at your accent :)

However, the main point is that TS makes the game a lot easier, and a lot more fun. The best times I've had in PS or WoW, I've been on TS with people... it's a lot more fun that way and you get to know people better than you can through chat.

My english isn't particularly good either, but you get past that after a short while, then you just say what you want to say :)

[TheIcon]

To get my behind to level 60 within the next mounth :D which would add another almost everynight druid online.

First up is ofcause getting some stuff. I'd ofcause love a fullset of Wildheart ... but that would be for the looks only I think. DM runs seems to be a good place for druids to gear up for end games :)

Not sure if my online time gives be the ability but I'd love to see guildraids on MC and Onyxia.

and with the upcomming 1.5 patch I want to see 10 man CTF teams in WG and 40 man teams in AV showing all the other guilds that we are not only able to raid we are also able to work togeather and kick horde ass.

[Gaetano]

Renegade Legion has had people from almost all european countries since we started out, and we are generally used to listening to all sorts of dialects. I think we are pretty tolerant, even if people don't speak english very well. Noone is going to make fun at your accent :)

However, the main point is that TS makes the game a lot easier, and a lot more fun. The best times I've had in PS or WoW, I've been on TS with people... it's a lot more fun that way and you get to know people better than you can through chat.

My english isn't particularly good either, but you get past that after a short while, then you just say what you want to say :)

No offense but none of this really addressed anything in my post.

Also I don't know who you're referring to when you say "my english isn't particularly good either" but in any case, I could add that I've actually been in English philology program in an university (though I gave it up to pursue engineering studies) and I do in fact feel my English skills are somewhat above average.

[Shinigami]

I meant accent-wise, which you mentioned yourself... Not trying to offend you :)

[Peete]

TS should be mandatory, period !

[Ramiraz]

while mandatory teamspeak can sound like a good idea, and it can alienate some members, which im sure is not what is intended

[Daymare]

I am sorry, but as far as I know, Teamspeak has always been mandatory for Renegade Legion members. And I promise you, this is not a problem. I myself come from norway, and my spoken english was horrible before I started playing with the legion. However, it did improve, and after half a year I had the guts to start talking a lot myself.

Teamspeak is mandatory, but you have no need to speak or have a microphone if you do not want to talk back, typing back is an option as well. Do not worry about not understanding or not being able to answer back, give it some time and you will have no problems with it =)

When it comes to teamspeak in raids, I find that the PS way actually works quite well, you have people on channel command (one from each 5 group) and the leader has channel command + whisper to all channels. Every time the leader need to say something, he just say it on whisper to all, he can discuss with all group leaders and he got full controll over what is going on + less spam ;)

[Banadan]

Nah, making some 3rd party tools mandatory is not a good idea. Some people just don't like 3rd party tools, no matter the pro's given by others, and no one has any right to tell them to change their 'ways'. It is not a 'killer' work to type in the text either. So the TS as such could be 'encouraged additional 3rd party tool', but not mandatory. Personally I have played many online games, and been in high end raiding guilds in most of the games, and there was NEVER an issue when it came to typing in the text. Neither is it an issue in this game. If needed, train the faster typing :)

[Shinigami]

Text is simply too slow when events happen fast and shit hits the fan... It takes forever to coordinate relatively simple pulls by typing it out and people get bored waiting.

I hate to say this, but I think this is one issue where new members have to accept that using TS is a part of the way RL does things. I'm not trying to offend anyone here, but you just can't beat voice communication for effectiveness.

I know WoW is not Planetside, but the lessons from that game prove beyond a doubt that you can't do things effectively without proper communication, and in my opinion having the raid leader type out orders while trying to heal a tank that just got critted by a mortal strike is not the ideal way of doing things.

[Budmonkey]

Agree with Shini and Daymare, TS is makes a huge difference when coming to effect team play IMO. The amount of times i have seen people type, what are we doing? Why are we waiting? Come on gogogo, when if they we on TS they would know the reasons.
Also in a 15 man raid things get hectic, tanks cant always see the softie in the corner getting his head bashed because of the sheer number of peeps on screen, a quick shout on TS has the tank coming to your aid very quickly. Just my Opinion on it.

[Fusion]

All I am going to say is, if you are not on TS you won't be coming to MC/Onyxia, simple as.