How many times do i have too tell im sorry

[patricia]

Well this raid i made my only semi-mistake in the 60 lvls, I rolled on a sword that i could really use because of the damage i did and the speed it had. I was still using a rather crappy sword when soloing. I'm really sorry for rolling on it now, because all of the agression i got afterwards. Its no fun when people are saying your only in for the greed and telling you you will be on there ignore list. Hardest of all when that are people you enjoy playing with. I,ve got a lot of things to consider after this happend. Do i really wanna keep playing when all agro is on me? I can't take that in real life and when i play a game i want too have fun, not meaning im not taking things seriously.

The few in guild that have seen me solo-ing know i always us a sword because i still have trouble controlling agro and keep it too my pet.
It was a good sword for meleing and whoever said that warlocks never do melee is wrong, at least in my case. I only use my staff when going into instances and have people taken care of the aggro. Because i know how people are about swords i asked about three times if i could roll on it? I misunderstood the remark kaldor was making because i was still thinking someone was missing i asked if i should summon the person and then there was already being looted.

Well im sorry that this happened. I love the sword and already have tried it out. But it was not worth all the agro. Next time i go into an instance, if ever, i will only roll if no one says they need it. Its just no fun this way.
Although i take the game seriously and invest a great deal of time in it, i begin feeling too think that its not worth the trouble anymore.
I got no chance whatsoever too defend myself. I was just being ignored and scolded at. If its going too be this way, and yes its not the first time i see people get agry over loot, then the fun of being a lvl-60 is gone. Secret alts as gromagrim called it begin too seem a lot more attractive all of a sudden.
Well maybe im just angry at all the agression i got. And maybe its pent up frustration. I leave the game for a few days because i don't feel like crying over it too long.

I makes me sad too see what i though where friends react this way. Don't think i can take it too see it again. Well i whish you all good luck and maybe ill see you all i a few days, but i really must let things cool of for a little

[Nyana]

Just to explain our loot rules again: Roll on BoP if the item is an upgrade to your current using item... reading your story and seeing you are very happy with the sword I don't see why you shouldn't have rolled for it, you did the right thing. I don't know who got angry at you or who is ignoring you, but if the person reads.. get a grip! It's just a game and same like those frigging DKP: THE SAME SWORD WILL DROP AGAIN ONE DAY! Looting always seem to get people angry, so Patricia, don't feel sorry about it.

I just can't stand when people whine over loot, grow up ffs and remember what guild you are in: Renegade Legion, we are not super elite godlike people standing above everyone and we value friendship above loot, if this is not your vision then try Minions of Mithril or any elite bastard guild, but sod off from RL.

PS: The last bit of my ranting is not directed towards anyone, but in general!

[Daymare]

Actually the last part of Nyana's remark is the most important one.
As an officer of Renegade Legion I can say that we do not, I repeat, do NOT IN ANY WAY, support this kind of behaviour. Even though many of our players are young (including me) this is a guild that play to have fun, and to respect each other like adults. The way some people behave like children every time somone take their toy away, is just outright silly.

If I was in the raid, I might have agreed that patricia should not roll on the item, seeing that she is after all a spell caster. She does not need the blade "that much" but that does not give anyone the right to assault her for rolling. Ok you can be a bit anoyed, but attacking some one in a fashing that makes him or her come onto the forums, I feel that is way out of line.

I am sure the PvE officers support me when I say that the people with this attitude has no place in RL, what so ever. And I hope they understand that they either need to change their attitude or change the Name beneath their character name.

[Ramiraz]

I fully agree with what Nyana said. If you rolled on the sword because it would be an upgrade for you, then you did the right thing. This is a prime example of why I am so much against the DKP system (in its current suggested form), because, as Nyana said : "THE SAME SWORD WILL DROP AGAIN ONE DAY". It might not be tomorow, or the next time, but it will come again, and those who lost (IE. Luck of the dice, hence you are in NO WAY to be blamed Patricia) the roll, will have another chance, and this time they wont be rolling against you.

Behavior like that is just silly, and in no way what I expect from this guild. As such, I would hope that you would PM a list of names to the officers, because they REALY need to talk to those people, and realy think about if the are RL material. and if they are, with behavior like that, then im not sure this is a guild I want to be in...

[Shinigami]

It was rather silly to give a 40-dps sword with no passive bonuses to a caster, but if you really need it then I guess it's ok. It might have been more useful on a rogue though :)

No hard feelings from me, I didn't know warlocks depended a lot on melee when soloing since most other casters I group with want weapons with passive bonuses and don't really care about DPS/procs.

There is no reason to flog yourself over this, come back and play again :)

[Banadan]

I didn't know warlocks depended a lot on melee when soloing

That's what I don't buy, when a squishie class hops in and hopes to actually do any damage with melee. I mean, they just don't have anything to help them with melee, nothing, in no way. No combat skills/styles a la warrior or rogue. No combat related abilities which work together with melee attacks like paladins have. No crit chance worth mentoning and no AGI to boost it. No STR even to put a serious dent into a fly. No talents to improve, or even add something to melee combat. They just hit autoattack and chip away, point by point, with like 80% miss rate at least (unless it is some masohist caster, who actually kept weapon skills maxed out, then this char will chip away, point by point, and not miss that much).

Now if it has any effect on it, say, "Increases shadow damage done yadda yadda" then it is OK, because it does help that warlock quite nicely. Or any other effect which helps with spells. Or if it has stats, say INT + SPI, INT + STA - also useful for the caster, due to stats alone. But, if it has no stats at all, or no effects related to spellcasting, basically is for plain damage - and some melee person needs it as an upgrade as well - then it is 'polite' for this squishie class not to roll on that item until the melee classes have it. Because it does not benefit the caster in any way if it has no relevant stats or passive effects. Caster who has to rely on melee damage - personally I never buy it, simply because the casters have no means, whatsoever, to do any melee damage worth mentioning, at all (and yes, I also have a mage and now and then "poke" the mobs too and I see what 'effect' it does to mob HP - nothing).

Same things go for melee people, when some staff or dagger drops, which has good caster stats and effects and nice DPS - the DPS may be 'cool' on it, but if the stats and effects clearly state it as the caster weapon - give it to caster and don't mess with it. It will benefit them more and through that, it will benefit you more when you group with them. DKP means nothing here, it comes down to fact who gets most benefit out of the item, and not who can use it or whether it packs higher DPS - and nothing else - then "my old dagger", which very well may have stats and effects on it, with lower DPS, what benefit you more. What's done is done, you rolled on it (although could have thought yourself, as to who benefits more, definately not you when it's plain melee weapon), you won, move on. Another time - don't roll, at least not until those who REALLY can put it to use, have it.

As for Rami's note on DKP - no, it would not happen generally with DKP: you see, with having to spend actual points on the item, the 'bidders' would have really thought whether they really need that item. If melee class sees that item as a serious upgrade, he/she will bid on it. If caster sees it as a nice new 'poker' with none of the useful stats or/and effects, he/she wont really waste any points on it. Sure, it is possible that once, for that single time, the caster may also bid on item, but if he/she sees that there are others who need it for real and want it, and bid on it, then that caster would not waste the points. Because at some point, later, that item drops again and this caster can just get it for minimum points anyway, if still wants it, because all melee's already have it - or better. /DKP example off

[Fusion]

Water under the bridge etc. don't worry about it Patricia, just try not to roll on items that don't suit casters...

It didn't help that some of people who got teleported couldn't see the roll window (even though they were standing next to the corpse when we looted), perhaps we should start using master looter in future if only to avoid mistakes like this happening in future.

[Rebel]

I didn't know warlocks depended a lot on melee when soloing

That's what I don't buy, when a squishie class hops in and hopes to actually do any damage with melee. I mean, they just don't have anything to help them with melee, nothing, in no way. No combat skills/styles a la warrior or rogue. No combat related abilities which work together with melee attacks like paladins have. No crit chance worth mentoning and no AGI to boost it. No STR even to put a serious dent into a fly. No talents to improve, or even add something to melee combat. They just hit autoattack and chip away, point by point, with like 80% miss rate at least (unless it is some masohist caster, who actually kept weapon skills maxed out, then this char will chip away, point by point, and not miss that much).

Have a clicky of FireStone (http://www.thottbot.com/beta.cgi?k=2146) ;)

[Im not taking sides here btw as i was not at the incident - just pointing out that Warlocks do have a little - although not that great albeit, ability to melee.]

[Banadan]

OK, so this Firestone gives additional damage. So it will then be 1 (melee damage) + from 80 to 120 fire damage :D And that at the expense of some great off-hand item, which can give you numerous other bonuses, like stats, passive effects.. And in the end, the damage even with this stone equipped will do nothing, as the squishie will be squished and mob not killed by squishie melee :)

You know, if that stone could be used on the weapon, like a whetstone, and it would last for some time like the weapon buffs do... That'd be a neat thing.

Anywho, back on topic - what's done is done, others should have been perhaps more clear with the loot rules as well. There's no point to scream at someone now, after the thing is done and over with. Next time all should pay more attention and done :)

[Daymare]

Just note that warlocks are the only ones of the squishy classes that actually might find use for a melee weapon, because of their great stamina with imp they might even hold their own against a melee class in the few seconds before the battle is over (for example if they run out of mana)

Anyway, the point here is that people need to grow up and get over the fact that they lost some phat lewt. Yes you spent a lot of time to try and get new gear, but some other people might have done just the same, so get over it. This might sound harsh, but thats the way the world moves.

[Toast]

I may have missed it but what sword was it?

[Shinigami]

Silent Fang (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=19192)

[patricia]

Actully i do quite a lot of meleing as stated before. I like too cast the hardest spells i got a them, you won't hardly ever see me do a shadowbolt or fear. When a target is dead for about 75% they always come running for me after all the damage i did. The imp is my primary pet in mele-ing and sometimes i us my void and sacrifice him for the last battle part if against hard chars.

I have an orb for my off hand that gives me the bonusses so i don't need the sword too have those. I just needed a good sword, thats why i wanted it. I agree that its more beneficial for a warrior or even roque as they make use of it inside an intance too. Outside an instance im as much entitled for a good sword as any other class.

And the remarks aboout a being a squishie class i find even insulting. Warlocks aren't that squishie and quite good a solo-ing. How the hell am i going too explain how i play my char as you have such an attitude

About the DKP remark it won't hold ground as i though about it and i really wanted it, why else would i roll. I would have bidded DKP points against it because it is a good sword.

Well i'll stop arguing about it now. I have thought about all you said and as things have not still passed by i'll stay away from the game for now. THnx for all the feedback.

[TheIcon]

only thing flashy about that blade would be the 1.6 speed and 40.6 dps. Cant say I would havbe used it with my rogue thats for sure :D

[Banadan]

I admit, I haven't played warlock. So does warlock gain STA with every level? Sometimes even 2 points of STA per level? And so EACH level? If yes, then they're indeed tad tougher then any 'squishie' class, but if not, then they're still it. It comes then down to simple gear selection and doesn't make warlock any more viable in melee then any other caster. Imp is a bonus there with the STA buff, but by no means does it make the warlock a 'tanking caster'. There's still the lack of AC, real defensive abilities, and offensive melee abilities, stats as well. Only difference in HP when compared to mage, if using same equipment, would be coming from the imp's buff. I'd guess that it would be better to shoot with the wand rather then swing the sword, damage would be higher probably (especially with this 'autofire' feature which comes with next patch - no need to press the button then repeadetly, just press it once and watch at it go!).

By 'squishie' I don't mean that you're a weak warlock. No, you wouldn't have reached high levels if you were a bad one. So there's no 'insult' aimed at your class or the ability to play the class. It simply represents the cloth wearers and the fact that you'd be torn apart by any melee mob (of appropriate level, of course), who gets on you when you have no mana and pet is dead, no matter your total HP and you can't kill that mob with melee, no matter how big of a sword you have (unless the mob has, like, a tiny handful of HP's left and even then the chances are that, if you're badly wounded, the mob might kill you before you kill it) :) Sad truth, just like the truth about paladins being not real tanks :D

Anyways, as was said, relax all, nothing to worry about (especially after I saw that sword, it's not that impressive :D ). Just mount another run for the boss - I know I want to see that sucker bite the dust - and get more of those. Explain the loot rules more clearly another time if there's some special arrangement needed, so that all would be knowledgeable about it. As for Patricia - that thing can be enchanted to add some needed stat to it. My chanter isn't high level yet, but I think I saw some INT enchants for the weapons? Can still turn that sword into 'real caster' weapon :)

[Carcass]

Just to explain our loot rules again: Roll on BoP if the item is an upgrade to your current using item... reading your story and seeing you are very happy with the sword I don't see why you shouldn't have rolled for it, you did the right thing. I don't know who got angry at you or who is ignoring you, but if the person reads.. get a grip! It's just a game and same like those frigging DKP: THE SAME SWORD WILL DROP AGAIN ONE DAY! Looting always seem to get people angry, so Patricia, don't feel sorry about it.

I just can't stand when people whine over loot, grow up ffs and remember what guild you are in: Renegade Legion, we are not super elite godlike people standing above everyone and we value friendship above loot, if this is not your vision then try Minions of Mithril or any elite bastard guild, but sod off from RL.

PS: The last bit of my ranting is not directed towards anyone, but in general!
Could not have said it better! So won´t ;)

To Patricia!
Let the Babies cry/whine!
And to our "Leaders" if the Babies can get away with such childish behaveour,there is for sure something Rotten in the State of WoW :mad:
Can only think that the people who ignores you are not very Old(age or mind)
This is ffs a Game not real Life!!! Get it!!

When i was playing D2 (know its not quite the same,but close) in the Old days with Iron,Nikodemus and we heard about the new WoW!
We planned to form a Guild etc. etc.
We liked to have at least one rule! noone under 18!
(this is no flame especially directed to people under 18,and could ofcause be bended)
Main reason was that there was to much flame,whine etc. etc.
Now Iron joined RL to play Planetside and convinced me to join this GREAT Legion!
And im thrilled !!!
But to hear people Whine,Ignore and what have you! Makes me think(i can do that hush hush Iron :D ) is this worth it!
I can understand where your comming from Patricia! its no way cool to be ignored,flamed etc. etc. in a game where it should be all about FUN and not GREED :(
Now to my point!
Think the people that ignored Pat! should bow real low and scratch their noses in the dirt,and say they are sorry!
And if not! you should completely ignore them!
And if they don´t get the message! they should have a BIG RED WARNING
Just my 5 cents

About casters not using Sword etc.
Its actually real fun to make Chars that stand out from the "normal" procedure :D
Did that alot in D2! Just ask Iron!
And we did it alot :D
So Pat! ENJOY your new Sword! and dont mind those fools...

[Daymare]

Your leaders has nothing to do with this, if the PvE officers were supposed to keep every whiner off at all times, they would be doing nothing else. I would think they asume people come with a bit of decency. If they dont im sure your leaders will find a solution to it.

Anyway, as said above. The players who have been behaving like this need to get their act together. And I think that has been mentioned enough now, so let us all stop spamming this thread with more flames/comforts/hugglies/rotten fish ;)

[Nathaniel]

my 2 cents

I was on the raid with pat and other guildies and it was on the final boss in Scholo where you get teleported into other rooms.

me and a couple of others were teleported and due to a weird bug or dungeon design when the boss was looted when we were all back together the teleported could not see the items when they were looted.

Despite Kaldor? and I and I believe one other person frequently saying "what items - cant see any?! " several time on both TS and text everyone didnt pass and then do a manual roll but several people (including pat) rolled.

The sword would have been a +4-5 dps for me for tanking but hey ho! it'll drop again. I have no hard feelings with anyone on the raid as was good fun.

but one thing to remember if people say they cant see the loot for gods sake pass and do a manual roll :)

[arjarjar]

Hi i can't help but post a reply on this, even though i wasn't there.

I know Patricia in real life and if anyone says patrice is greedy, they are the biggest fools ever. if you would say patrice isn't the best looking on the planet i would have to agree she isn't :D but greedy :confused: :confused: :confused:

And having played with patricia often, she uses a melee weapon often but most of the times to finish them of or fight them of if out of mana so when soloing she puts it to good use. and the remarks on when hit by a Mob? thats no way the issue here. She could put the sword to good use the way she specced her character and play's her character. so she has as much right to the sword as any melee class as it is not just raids and dungeons alone.

Ar

[Tasie]

This is a somewhat sad story...

Now, I havn't been there, so I can't know what's going on. I do know, tho, that ppl can misunderstand and misread things pretty often. I do that myself too.

But... No matte what.. There's no need to get angry about it. I mean.. come on.. its a friggin piece of loot.. And even IMO with a high drop rate. Go play Lineage and deal with 0.00001% chance of weapon drop.. THEN you can complain about unfair bla bla. But with this its kinda stupid..

I havn't been to schoolo, and I dunno how hard this boss can be to kill.. But I imagine that its durable to kill him again.. and if so.. Well.. if someone really want the sword, well.. Start another raid..

And for the thing about casters and melee.. This game is (Like every other game) supposed to be fun.. And you play the way you feel like fun...

As Grond said earlier, pick D2 as an example.. How many of us havn't tried making something completely stupid setup and found that it actually worked?

If pat. like the DOT's from the warlock, but also wanna bash in some skulls, then by all means should it be done..

And just for the record... Casters are not always squishie chars. Look at Gandalf from LOTR.. That guy use his sword more than he uses spells:P

my 2 cents, and final remark: we are in this guild to have fun, so get over some loot, that'll eventually drop again....

[Yimahura]

Well thats not the hole story you know...

Some wanted to go to that kady boss with all the green ghouls...
She sais all who wanna go sais aye... only 5 replied and then she sais ok i guess we go with 5 then... She wasnt even teamleader and she decides were we go ??
Some trinket dropped.... she and necto rolled for it...
Then some blue stuff drops... everyone passes... enchanter stuff => shard... we had more then 1 enchanter but she took it and no roll for shard..
Then a staff drops... she gets it. (and no i dont need a staff)
Then other blues... shard for her again... some asked for a roll... she replies ''can i have something too for a chance''
Then some green drops... everyone passed.. again she wanted it for disenchant.
Then at the end boss dies... cant see loot...
Can i roll she sais... Kaldors has asked what for... she rolls and got the sword...
There wasnt any item i wanted but she had a nice staff and all de enchant
stuff, she could have passed on the sword for a fair roll imo...
Also a few days earlier in ubrs the dreadmist robe dropped... knowing that Topar did probably 20 runs or more... she could have passed out of respect for Topar.

Yes she did say sorry... i am just saying that i was one of those angry ppl... and telling why.

[Shinigami]

That's not quite the way I remember it Yimahura, but anyway...

Can we put this behind us and move on? The point has been raised and debated, continuing it only leads to further alienation of RL members. If there were any leasons to be learned from this I hope they have been learned.

I urge Patricia to log back on and play with us again, we don't want to loose a good player over a petty loot argument.

Patricia has already explained how sorry she is, no need to continue rubbing salt in the wounds :(

[Ironman]

I don't think this thread is going to help us any more so I'll close it for now.