PS compulsory cert time?

[Echor]

I hate compulsory certs, but unless we can get the guys to play as a team, they may as well not be in the team?

I'd like feedback on this (and yes I know I was one of the loudest people against it before)

I also see that its the same people that ignore what's asked each time, maybe time for a cull..

[FuSs]

we should just run that squad more often and dont care about the guys who dont have the certs.
sure we wont have many people to start with but at least those people play for the squad.

people who cant be arsed to read the forum and set up their keys and stuff are of no use anyways.

[JojoTheSlayer]

Compolsary certs is a bad idea. Its better, like Shy sayes, to just run "squads" in a setting like "commandos" and tell peps that to join you need a certen sett of certs etc.

We are to few in general to risk the unpopular compolsary cert desision. We could maby do it when oure nr increases, but then again if that happend I realy think there would be no need to do it anyway since it would be enought peps for "commandos" and other stuff.

If youre gonna sett a "secondary standar attack mode", aka gal mode beeing main, I think it would be wise to have the low down importent info about it in the Outfit window ( where we have TS info etc ). So peps that dont pay attension could just be told to read it. Lott lest /o for you to type me thinks. Also more peps would gett used to it. No matter how much we want it not everyone will read the forums as often as we like so the ingame outfit window should be used.

If peps have avatars in the Legion that cant fitt into the "commandos", eg like my Jojo char who dosent have half the certs for "commandos", they should be given the option to make an ALT ( like my Gaaybiker who has all the certs for commando ) if they want to join the "commandos" squad.

To enforce the "commandos" foothold, if you want this to be done considering youre compolsary cert question. I think its best/better to enforce that everyone in the "commandos" TS channel should be playing "commandos". When peps are "left out" you have a bigger chance of more doing what is needed to join the commandos since they dont wanna play alone.
AkA: "Peps that arnt in commandos should not be in the commandos channel when commandos are run! No discusion!" This is how it should be told to peps.

The "commandos" should not be played "too often", term beeing debatable, since:
A) We dont want peps to lose the gal tactical skills
B) Some peps will never get into "commandos" and they should be able to squad from time to time to. Theres a diffrence about beeing "left out" a few times and beeing "excluded" from team combat in an Outfit.

My 2cent
Jojo.

[FuSs]

it all depends on the given squad leaders.
as long as most squad leaders wanna run gal squads its unlikely to run many commando squads cause people are certed for gal stuff.
atm it looks like most squad leaders wanna run commando squads but people are not certed for it.
the only solution i see is to run what you want even tho it means you have only 2-5 guys to squad with.

guys run your squad. even with only 2 guys its a lot more fun than zerging around.
stick together and wait till more guys join.

dont force the rest of the legion to play your way.
i would love to see the commando thing our general tactic (cause its damn impressive to see it in action) but if people dont like it, we shouldnt force them to do it.
if they find squad leaders to do their thing and if those squad leaders are interested to team up with the commandos its even better
(we just have to find a way to maximize the effect).

[JojoTheSlayer]

Do you have a secondary view or conclusion on this debate Echor? :confused: :rolleyes:

[Echor]

Do you have a secondary view or conclusion on this debate Echor? :confused: :rolleyes:I don't think there has been much debate really?

The suggestions that have been made are already in practice one way or another.

I've made a point of squadding with the main group recently and have got feedback that surprised me. I've had numerous tells from people that certain players are always going it alone or with one other person, usually the same person (or small group), these tells have been complaints that these players aren't supporting the main squad in any way. I've then gone on to tell them about the commando squad, asked if they've read the forum and the answer is always no, or I didn't read that!

I really don't want to enter a debate about compulsory certs, that was more a title to show how frustrated I am with the players not even trying to join in, but also from what I see, many feel left out if they don't have the certs for the commando squads, but can't be arsed to recert to try it, something I find truly shameful really.

[FuSs]

tell them that it is required to read the sticky posts at least and people who refuse to do that should not come and complain about other people playing the way RL is meant to be played atm.

[Trapper]

I've always considered Med to be an essential cert for good team play. The ability to heal allies around you in the middle of a fire fight can never be underestimated.

I'm keeping Adv Medic, again its one of the better team play certs, especially in smaller, mobile foot units

[leanmeankillingmachine]

Im not one for agreeing with compulsory certs, Id rather we arrange an "event" where we try and agree on the best tactics to use and therefore the certs that we might possibly need.

However, I do think that all RL members should be self sufficient when it comes to mobility. All of us having mossie or deli would be a good idea.

[SoulDem0n]

I apologise for not having the correct 'commando' set -up yet. This wasn't intentional on my part, I just didnt realise until Echor pointed it out that I had to adjust my user cp to access this part of the forum .
Before I went to EQ2, members were automatically given access to the relevant forums, and with the new set up on the forums ie more wow content, I just assumed ps had taken a sort of back seat now.
Obviously this isn't the case, and no criticism of the system at all, just my explanation for my apparent ignorance.

Personally, now Ive read Shy's post, I am quite intrigued and will make every effort over the coming days to recert to suit. I'll have a fiddle with the whisper thing to see if I can sort that out too. With most fights on werner giving me ridiculously low framerates anyway, crouching with a gauss may be the best option for me until I can shell out £2, 000 on a new machine or something ( which won't be in the near future :( ) .

As for the compulsory certs thing, mossie and an advanced support are quite invaluable , just for the independance it gives us overall.

I have just a couple of questions : namely does having HA exclude one from the commando squads , and secondly, do we have any scope to practice stuff within the confines of the squads ie 5 in a group, tower drops , gen holds, mossie formation flying and engagements as a formation.

[Endangerment]

im def up for this, i didnt know we had to request access, now i do i have told ppl do (as they didnt know). i am in the process of recerting and it will be complete as soon as i get br 18 (1 block away). tonight under justins guide we practiced a lot of moves that i came to expect under RL when i last played, and i had a top night, a few ppl wherent happy as they had obviously done this b4 and didnt like the fact they were losing bep/cep/fun because of the newer players in the outfit.

but to them i say screw you. although your enjoyment is of course essential to you stayign in planetside (let alone RL) i'm sure u can give away a couple of nights to make the Legion better because in the long run it will DEF help you.

all in all i want the legion to be the best. We were the best, i remeber nme's saying on local to give up a base because RL were holding the hack, thats what i want again, and here's to helping us all achieve that goal.

[FuSs]

I have just a couple of questions : namely does having HA exclude one from the commando squads , and secondly, do we have any scope to practice stuff within the confines of the squads ie 5 in a group, tower drops , gen holds, mossie formation flying and engagements as a formation.

HA doesnt exclude you from the commando squad.
as i said we gonna make best use of what we have.

practice... dunno. depends on how well people do ;)

[TataLebuj]

Cumpulsory Certs I have always been for. Its the best way of defining a group and allowing players to show their loyalty for that group.

But that's just my take on it. Love the commando's idea, just wish I was around more often to be in it.

When I am on, I will be in the commandos channel waiting for a chance to participate.

Cheers,

[justinalot]

I thought we agreed on this ages ago?

Mossie.............


Am I not correct.

Also I think asking people to have 2 certs as a must is a bit much. I think its up to the leaders to lead by example and show how useful certain certs can be.

Also if we do not do lots of CC holds and gen holds ADV med starts to become redundant.

[Wolf_Lord_Andy58th]

just a suggestion from an outside guy, but why not make it compulsary to have one advanced cert, but let people choose...

so CE, ad hack, ad med or air support + ground support...

[Endangerment]

Also if we do not do lots of CC holds and gen holds ADV med starts to become redundant.

adv med is always uselful, u never know when a reaver is gonna drop on you and take somebody down. I think that yes not everybody needs to, but a few do. You saw in our gen drop defence that even with about 5 adv meds we ran out after all, though think more CE was needed as repairs often seem to be a lot less abundant that healing.

[Mastacheif]

Adv med ftw and mossy

Possiblely HA

[knaggsy]

MOZZY is a MUST (by br BR12) i think it should be compulsary.. because i think that a galaxy is a luxuary and we should not become dependant on it..

i think quinn some nights must get realy board flying a galaxy all night.

also one ADV CERT: (by br18)

Hacking
Medic or
Engineering

----------------------------

other thigns which come automatically.. :
Rexo or cloaker (possabily.. not required but recomended)
medium assult (must be complusary shoudlnt affect anyone thou)

[XIX]

im ready to change all certs if asked allways fun to try new things, i have
ADV Haxing and Ground support atm. But not rexo or max all i seem to do when certing that is dying but i can try. (if asked to fly a Gal dont hold me responsibel :cool: )

[kroma]

had a really good session last night on ps, we had about 15+ RL members, some new, some old. I really think mossie should be a compulsory cert becasue it was breaking up the squad by some people not being able to get to the target, and therefore either fighting somewhere else or driveing there which took ages and broke up the squad anyway. I think our new members need to be directed to these forums, and sticky threads should be a compulsory read. I also agree that you should have one adv skill from br18.

[James24]

concerning Mosie. it is a nice tool but they lack the power a Gal Drop can have. No REXOs or MAXs can be a bad thing.

I'm currently BR18.95 and I have the following certs

I will not get rid of these certs:
MA (2)
HA (6)
Mosie (9)
Scatter Max (12)
Rexo (15)

Possibly get rid of this cert if necessary
Infiltration Suit (17)

Really not bothered either way
Vanguard (20)
ATV (21)

So with BR19 soon if I got rid of Vanguard and ATV I'd have 5certs to spend. Probably looking at Adv. Hacking because Infil+Adv Hacking+Scatter Max = :D

We seems to have a gazzilion Medics and Engineers and since I'm always in a MAX it wouldn't really be benefical on most journeys if I was an Adv Medic/ Combat Engineer.

[FuSs]

gal drops are great at times but usually you dont need them.
mosqs are a lot faster and you can split up and attack several targets.

use gal drops to take the hard nuts but only if you have 10 or more guys.
use mosqs for everything else.

[Hovis]

I won't use mossie drops. But that's just me. I can't free up the certs and I don't like mossie dropping on general principle.

[kroma]

concerning Mosie. it is a nice tool but they lack the power a Gal Drop can have. No REXOs or MAXs can be a bad thing.

I'm currently BR18.95 and I have the following certs

I will not get rid of these certs:
MA (2)
HA (6)
Mosie (9)
Scatter Max (12)
Rexo (15)

Possibly get rid of this cert if necessary
Infiltration Suit (17)

Really not bothered either way
Vanguard (20)
ATV (21)

So with BR19 soon if I got rid of Vanguard and ATV I'd have 5certs to spend. Probably looking at Adv. Hacking because Infil+Adv Hacking+Scatter Max = :D

We seems to have a gazzilion Medics and Engineers and since I'm always in a MAX it wouldn't really be benefical on most journeys if I was an Adv Medic/ Combat Engineer.

if we all drop from mossies, head for equipment term and hack out rexos and max units

[moose]

mozzie dropping is by far the most flexible way of doing things. a gal is just too slow and cumbersome and sticks out like a sore thumb, giving the enemy good chance to set up a counter defence. mozzies on the other hand are alot faster and have a better boost, so many times enemy wont realise there's a drop till its too late.

main drawback is the limitation to agile only so anybody who is a serial max nub wont be doing themselves any favors as in my experience is that they aren't too good for agile combat.

also if a gal dop is not needed for example if the target is secured already, mozzies are much more useful because they can deter a counter attack by the enemy much more effectively then a galaxy ever could cos a sqd of mozzies can do much more than a sqd of grunts sitting indoors

[Hovis]

Couple of bad points about mossies:

1. They are not that much faster than a Galaxy to get ready and in a crowded base getting 10+ mossies out can take forever.

2. Most of us can't pilot of Mossie worth shit.

3. AA can kill mossies before the drop zone. Galaxies will almost always make it.

4. If you mossie drop a target you can't just get to work on the gen or CC, you have to hack a term and suit up.

Basically I just think Mossie dropping is taking the easy option and compromising the effectiveness of the outfit. That is something I feel strongly that we should never do. We should ALWAYS be trying to be the best and we should never compromise quality. We can load and launch Galaxy strikes in less than a minute, we used to do so in the past, there is no reason we can't do it now.

In other words guys we need to get our shit together again, not set our sights lower for the sake of convenience.

Some points on this:

1. If you can't get somewhere or are too busy to obey an order to move to a pickup SAY SO. Nothing more irritating that waiting for people who are not even on their way. If you didn't hear the order why are you not on comms? If you are not on comms why aren't you looking at the squad chat?

2. We need our response time to Galaxy pickups to be slashed, utterly. Players need to bind to agreed home bases and they need to react instantly to the order for a pick up.

3. The cornerstone of Renegade Legion has always been superior skills and superior teamwork. Teamwork means doing what the Officer Commanding tells you to do. We're not some fascist dictatorship, this is not some way to try to suck the fun out of the game. Orders are given, more as instructions really, its because no team can work without somebody calling the shots. When you click 'Yes' to join a squad you are agreeing to work as a part of the team.

[FuSs]

if we have less than 10 people online we have to adapt.
gal drops without full gal are a waste of time.

[Hovis]

if we have less than 10 people online we have to adapt.
gal drops without full gal are a waste of time.

Still better than dropping a couple of mossies on somebody's head. A mossie drop has no combat value whatsoever.

With a squad of five or smaller the Deliverer should be weapon of choice. Our teamwork and tactics suffer the further apart we get.

Besides it's a moot point now, last few times I've been on we have easily been able to fill a Galaxy and then some.

[FuSs]

take 2 libs instead for example.
or 5 mosqs, drop somewhere, surge in and max up inside.

there are many ways but small gal drops are bollocks.

[Hovis]

Well the thing is if you are talking about using mossies for small unit actions then it's a whole other situation. If we've got small numbers online then the sort of offensive action we'd use a Galaxy for is out of the question. My chief concern was that this might be building up to using VC style mossie swarms.

Personally as I say, in small unit actions I prefer the Deli. Two certs and it moves five troops, or ten if you use the Sund. If you take three certs of every trooper in your squad that is at least one advanced support skill down the crapper, per man. That's a big price.

[Flufball]

Well the thing is if you are talking about using mossies for small unit actions then it's a whole other situation. If we've got small numbers online then the sort of offensive action we'd use a Galaxy for is out of the question. My chief concern was that this might be building up to using VC style mossie swarms.

Personally as I say, in small unit actions I prefer the Deli. Two certs and it moves five troops, or ten if you use the Sund. If you take three certs of every trooper in your squad that is at least one advanced support skill down the crapper, per man. That's a big price.


Hovis you utter git, stop making so much sense, your supposed to agree and spout out incomprehensible babble about mossies being better than anyother method of transport and that those of us who prefer the gal drops are inferior, outmoded and old fashioned :p

[FuSs]

yes talking mainly about small squads or targets which aint worth a gal drop.
e.g. if we go for an undefended base we dont need a gal drop.
head there, max up and do your shit. just 3 mins faster than with a gal :P

[maverik]

ok , how about this for a compromise, seing as how last time i checked we werent bursting at the seams with gal pilots at the moment, and i do have moz anyway ill drop it for gal then we should always have an answer, dependant on the situation ofcourse

[Freon]

This morning I dropped mossie as we needed a gal pilot, until then, i had mossie.

I thought this was sorted months ago that ALL RL members would have mossie if needed for commando style raids.

My thoughts.....................

Mossie is a great weapon for those who can use them. by this I mean the likes of Shy, Porthos, Moose, Careless, Mimarz etc can spend hours in a mossie, farming kills for hours and hours.

I cant, for I am an utterly useless pilot in a fight. Its just not something I can do. In fact, those 3 points, for me as an individual, are pretty much wasted, just for a taxi that i die in if a VS AA max is half a continent away.
I am also not an agile soldier, I much prefer and am more effective, wrapped up in a nice warm Rexxo suit.

I would much rather have Air support instead of mossie, as these 3 birds are more suited to support type players, of which I consider myself (coz I aint no fooking killwhore, thats for sure!!!).

BUT - current RL policy is to have mossie certed, so I have had it certed. I may not like it much, but I am in this outfit, and proud to be in this outfit. If a mossie cert is required, then a mossie cert is what I will have!!!

[kroma]

well said freon

[FuSs]

we have people in RL who dont enjoy mosqs.
its a pain for them to pay 3 points for a taxi while they could as well have air support which is a lot more usefull for the rest of the legion and for them.

on the other hand we have people in the legion who love to fly mosqs and drop in agile.
for them mosq is a must have cert and they can spend hours in them.

why not put the gal whores in one squad and the mosq whores in the other squad ?
all in one platoon.
all work for the same goal.
all in one ts channel (to avoid spinoff from the other squad)
and all in one gal if needed :P
just 2 ways of doing it and some more versatility.


what do you say ?

[James24]

if you swap mosie for air support you can get a lib for personal transport (as long as we have a tech plant which 99% of the time we do) It's got about 6 or7 times the armour of a mosie and can get you to the destination although slower, but also you have gal as well.

But 3 points for a taxi does seem insane when most of the time with RL we use the gal. In a busy base you need the gal's transport capacity for MAXs and REXOs because if you are going for the gen you will not have time to get to the spawns to MAX/REXO up because of the troops running around in the base. Having a gal means you can get to the destination without having to take a trip to an equipment terminal.

Also, 3 points could be better spent on an support cert, only being br19 I use all my certs REXOs, MAX, Mosie +engineer that I don't have enough certs left after that to get any more support.

[Hovis]

we have people in RL who dont enjoy mosqs.
its a pain for them to pay 3 points for a taxi while they could as well have air support which is a lot more usefull for the rest of the legion and for them.

on the other hand we have people in the legion who love to fly mosqs and drop in agile.
for them mosq is a must have cert and they can spend hours in them.

why not put the gal whores in one squad and the mosq whores in the other squad ?
all in one platoon.
all work for the same goal.
all in one ts channel (to avoid spinoff from the other squad)
and all in one gal if needed :P
just 2 ways of doing it and some more versatility.


what do you say ?


I think this is how it should be, because Mossie droppers -are- valuable to a commander both to recon and to take care of business that doesn't require the full squad drop and stomp treatment. I don't think we need to split them into a whole separate squad though, since for the hard target drops we generally need them on the Gal.

So in other words a few Mossie droppers are good to have, as are pilots in general and I wouldn't want to be thought of as demonising our Air Cav, because it's damn useful stuff, but the main thrust, when it's needed, should be the full Galaxy drop complete with the full complement of WTFpwnage type Renegades. :D